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Re:Palantir’s software was used for deportations, documents ... by darawk on Friday May 03, 2019 @04:21AM (#19816544)
That's certainly an opinion. I figure you'd have no trouble integrating into the local culture and customs of the tribes of Papua New Guinea, then?
Re:Palantir’s software was used for deportations, documents ... by VvR-Ox on Friday May 03, 2019 @04:27AM (#19816576)
Not being nationalist or getting rid of all nations borders does not exclusively lead to you being forced to integrate into New Guinean Culture.

Just because we don't do this nationalized small-minded shit we do right now, doesn't automatically mean we get rid of all roots, cultures, ideas, fears, wishes etc. of each "nation", "culture", whatever.

Re:Palantir’s software was used for deportations, documents ... by darawk on Friday May 03, 2019 @04:29AM (#19816584)
Did you read the comment I was responding to? It sad "the idea of nationality is silly". Your response to me is a non-sequitur.
Re:Palantir’s software was used for deportations, documents ... by ascar on Friday May 03, 2019 @04:40AM (#19816634)
Culture and nationality are not synonyms. In fact most countries have multiple cultures. Especially the US as a country of immigrants. Saying the idea of nationality is silly, isn't the same as saying culture is silly.

Edit: changed "nationalism" for "nationality".

Re:Palantir’s software was used for deportations, documents ... by Veen on Friday May 03, 2019 @06:52AM (#19817200)
Especially the US as a country of immigrants

It is a country of immigrants with a diverse array of cultures. But culture and nation are not independent. There is a core set of principles and institutions that make the US a nation: the constitution, the bill of rights, representative democracy, separation of church and state, and so on. They are part of the culture of the US.

However diverse the communities that live in the US are, they have to support the core ideas that make the US a nation. There are people in the world who do not support those ideas. It would be foolish to have too many of them within US borders.

Re:Palantir’s software was used for deportations, documents ... by fzeroracer on Friday May 03, 2019 @06:57AM (#19817224)
How, exactly, do Native American reservations and tribal sovereignty fit into your argument? Should they be 'deported' because they don't adhere to all of the core principles of the US?
Re:Palantir’s software was used for deportations, documents ... by Veen on Friday May 03, 2019 @07:03AM (#19817258)
It seems perverse to think of Native Americans as immigrants and a little prejudiced to assume they are opposed to representative democracy.
Re:Palantir’s software was used for deportations, documents ... by fzeroracer on Friday May 03, 2019 @07:09AM (#19817285)
To break things down step by step: You said and I will quote:

> However diverse the communities that live in the US are, they have to support the core ideas that make the US a nation. There are people in the world who do not support those ideas. It would be foolish to have too many of them within US borders.

I pointed out that many Native American tribes do not adhere or support many of the core ideals that make the US a nation, particularly considering the US as a nation was founded upon their bodies. You said it was foolish to have too many of those kind of people within the US border. Your argument essentially advocates for their removal.

So should they be 'deported'?

Re:Palantir’s software was used for deportations, documents ... by Veen on Friday May 03, 2019 @07:27AM (#19817387)
I too will break this down into little chunks.

1) The context of this discussion is immigration. 2) Native Americans are not non-citizen immigrants. They are US citizens. 3) Native Americans should not be deported for failing to support the core ideals of the US.

This seems to me entirely obvious, but I'm happy to make it explicit. You have already alluded to the solution to Native American populations who do not support the US's core ideals: sovereign reservations.

Re:Palantir’s software was used for deportations, documents ... by ionised on Friday May 03, 2019 @09:16AM (#19818101)
That's not how I interpreted his post. Not sure why you did.
Re:Palantir’s software was used for deportations, documents ... by Veen on Saturday May 04, 2019 @04:11AM (#19825133)
I'll explain why I interpreted it that way. The conversation is about the deportation of immigrants. What I said was said in that context. The reply to my comment was therefore either about immigration or irrelevant to the topic at hand. Grice's Maxim of Relevance tells us to interpret contributions to conversations as attempts at relevance, so I did.

(In reality, I realized that bringing Native Americans into a discussion about immigration and deportation was an attempt to confuse the issues. That annoyed me so I decided to reply as if the commenter wasn't deliberately missing the point).

Re:Palantir’s software was used for deportations, documents ... by ascar on Sunday May 05, 2019 @02:15PM (#19834106)
Though the discussion had long shifted to nationality and culture and was only slightly related to immigration at that point.
[dead]
Re:Palantir’s software was used for deportations, documents ... by ascar on Friday May 03, 2019 @05:01AM (#19816716)
Substitute nationalism for nationality and my statement remains valid. The difference between the status of belonging to a nation and ones self-identification with ones nation is not relevant, if my point is that culture is not necessarily related to nations. No reason to become personal. Especially if you are wrong yourself.
Re:Palantir’s software was used for deportations, documents ... by drb91 on Friday May 03, 2019 @04:36AM (#19816623)
Wtf did forced integration come from? There’s cultural variation everywhere and it rarely corresponds with political borders (or happens as a consequence of it I suppose).
Re:Palantir’s software was used for deportations, documents ... by darawk on Friday May 03, 2019 @05:00AM (#19816711)
Who said anything about forced integration? You suggested the idea of nationality was silly. If the idea of nationality has no salience, then there is no meaning to national identity and therefore integrating yourself into any other human civilization should be completely seamless.
Re:Palantir’s software was used for deportations, documents ... by fzeroracer on Friday May 03, 2019 @06:51AM (#19817191)
If we use the reverse of your logic, then being a national of X country means you should be able to integrate within any subcultures within that nation entirely seamlessly.

For example, you should be able to walk into any Native American tribe and be able to seamlessly integrate yourself into their culture despite having zero background.

Re:Palantir’s software was used for deportations, documents ... by viivaux on Friday May 03, 2019 @06:47AM (#19817168)
>therefore

Not really. In a whole number of ways. I actually have no idea how you can say this with any honesty.

I mean, are you really arguing that national identity is the major stumbling block in integrating to a tribe in Papua New Guinea.... Here's a hint: Other :tribes: would have difficulty integrating, and they've likely never been introduced to the concept.

Please explain to me how you're so confident while simultaneously so widely and clearly wrong.

Re:Palantir’s software was used for deportations, documents ... by stevezsa8 on Friday May 03, 2019 @04:35AM (#19816616)
I think you had a good point with your first sentence.

It's always good to be aware that people have different opinions and views on certain things.

Re:Palantir’s software was used for deportations, documents ... by zensavona on Friday May 03, 2019 @05:30AM (#19816829)
And I suppose any American should have no trouble integrating into the religious deep south culture?