Re:Henrik Ibsen invented realistic theater, and now he bores...
by zmapuser on Sunday April 28, 2019 @11:33AM
(#19771633)
This seems to me like a very High School English teacher inspired interpretation of the story. I'm not sure what your distinction is between opinion and thesis, but in either case the "sins of the father" quote is just a dramatic element of the story. The thesis IMO is quite clearly a critique on the hypocrisies of the Norwegian society at the time. The characters in the book that all proclaim traditional values and virtues are all hiding despicable behavior while the mother and son subscribe to a more progressive morality and are punished for it.
Also Carver might feel more vital and reel considering his stories are about people in my parents or grandparents generation (people I've met), whereas Ibsen was writing when Victorian England was still a thing. I love both authors btw.
Re:Henrik Ibsen invented realistic theater, and now he bores...
by chungleong on Sunday April 28, 2019 @11:20AM
(#19771554)
Have you read or seen the Wild Duck? I think it's much superior to Ibsen's better known plays.
Re:Henrik Ibsen invented realistic theater, and now he bores...
by highesttide on Sunday April 28, 2019 @12:42PM
(#19772095)
As in Norwegian, I have to ask... is Vildanden (the wild duck) not one of his most known/iconic plays outside of Norway? I would say it's easily one of the three defining plays people would know about over here, so it confuses me to see it mentioned like this.
Re:Henrik Ibsen invented realistic theater, and now he bores...
by chungleong on Sunday April 28, 2019 @01:12PM
(#19772280)
My impression is that a Doll's House and Ghosts are much better known in the English speaking world. Enemy of the People too--probably because of the punchy title.
Re:Henrik Ibsen invented realistic theater, and now he bores...
by highesttide on Sunday April 28, 2019 @01:43PM
(#19772472)
Interesting, over here I would say et Dukkehjem (a doll's house), Vildanden (the wild duck), and Peer Gynt are his most known works, probably not-very-closely followed by en folkefiende (Enemy of the people). Fascinating.
Re:Henrik Ibsen invented realistic theater, and now he bores...
by chungleong on Sunday April 28, 2019 @02:47PM
(#19772872)
The message of the Wild Duck is sort of unpopular. If we could somehow stage the play on HN, it'd probably get massively downvoted :-)
That ending is something that my brother and I reference today as an example of how art can become top-heavy and unconvincing (The sun is the "source," which in this case is the father, who has passed his disease literally and figuratively on to his son).
The ultimate problem I have with Ibsen is that his plays feel pre-configured, even fake. He's never searching for a thesis or questioning. He has an opinion to unload (e.g. the sins of the father shall be visited upon the son) and he's decided to use a play to do it. The result feels sterile, boring, lacking in wit, pointless.
I would unfavorably compare Ibsen to Raymond Carver. Carver also deals with disintegrating families, marital tension, poverty, alcoholism and the rest. But Carver somehow feels vital and real. His writing never resembles overwrought tragedy even though there's plenty of unhappiness. You never get the feeling that Carver has the answers or that he's talking down to you.