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Re:Amazon Has Gone from Neutral Platform to Cutthroat Compet... by eanzenberg on Thursday April 25, 2019 @04:19PM (#19752138)
Yes! You can't have it both ways. You can't have random people submit IP to your codebase and then own the monetization of the end result.
Re:Amazon Has Gone from Neutral Platform to Cutthroat Compet... by staticassertion on Thursday April 25, 2019 @04:33PM (#19752242)
So how do you bootstrap your company?

You choose closed source and you throw away early adopters - people are way, way less likely to try out closed source software from what I've seen. They'll even resent you for it.

You choose open source with a permissive license - you bootstrap, get users, and some larger company comes along and essentially takes it from you.

You choose GPL3 or some less permissive license and no one will ever use your software.

How do you see this working?

Re:Amazon Has Gone from Neutral Platform to Cutthroat Compet... by moreira on Thursday April 25, 2019 @04:38PM (#19752280)
You choose closed source and you get different early adopters. You don't get the same early adopters that try out every new open source project, and that's OK because you're not trying to run an open source project, you're trying to build a business. The people who would resent you for being closed source are just not your target market, and that's OK.

Open source is a choice. You get a lot of early adopters, yes, but the project is also completely out of your control. There's nothing stopping anyone else from taking it, putting more resources into it, and stealing your thunder.

If you're not happy with that idea, just don't make your code open source. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Re:Amazon Has Gone from Neutral Platform to Cutthroat Compet... by capkutay on Friday April 26, 2019 @12:52AM (#19754946)
There's also companies that create open source projects and go on to build highly differentiated value-add products on top of it. E.g. Databricks (owners of Apache Spark) who built a great SaaS product for managing data science pipelines. That product is so valuable it's almost as if they don't even need to monetize the spark project by itself.

What I don't like is the companies that create some open source project for the hype, then charge for a 'management console' or some marginal add-on.

Re:Amazon Has Gone from Neutral Platform to Cutthroat Compet... by busterarm on Thursday April 25, 2019 @04:39PM (#19752289)
Elastic Cloud is far and away the best SaaS ElasticSearch offering.

It's in every way a better product than the hosted AWS ElasticSearch service, which I find to be practically unusable. More importantly, I don't know anywhere that uses AWS ElasticSearch where ElasticSearch is a core component of someone's platform.

The problem Elastic has is that their Cloud isn't remotely as good as self-hosting. Using their Cloud doesn't abstract away the domain knowledge needed to operate ElasticSearch at scale, so anyone who uses it and becomes competent will eventually self-host.

If they can get better at abstracting away the arcane knowledge needed to operate ES, AWS won't be a problem for them.

Re:Amazon Has Gone from Neutral Platform to Cutthroat Compet... by coredog64 on Friday April 26, 2019 @07:05AM (#19756246)
At my previous employer we used the AWS managed ES product for an ELK stack that was ingesting terabytes per day. It was painful, and we eventually moved off it, but it was still valuable for the training wheels it provided. If the developers had been better at logging it’s possible we would have been happy to continue on the managed product.
Re:Amazon Has Gone from Neutral Platform to Cutthroat Compet... by jackbravo on Thursday April 25, 2019 @06:26PM (#19753069)
Like algolia
Re:Amazon Has Gone from Neutral Platform to Cutthroat Compet... by busterarm on Thursday April 25, 2019 @07:15PM (#19753412)
From where I sit, Algolia solves a very small subset of problems that Lucene-based search engines do. Often problems people don't actually have.
Re:Amazon Has Gone from Neutral Platform to Cutthroat Compet... by WalterSear on Thursday April 25, 2019 @04:59PM (#19752466)
You choose closed source, recognize that people who won't pay weren't your target market anyway, and accrete the reputation for your product that wins people on the fence over to your paid product/service.
Re:Amazon Has Gone from Neutral Platform to Cutthroat Compet... by chongli on Thursday April 25, 2019 @05:12PM (#19752553)
Why not use a dual license model? AGPL for all, commercial license for paying customers. I think a number of companies use this approach.
Re:Amazon Has Gone from Neutral Platform to Cutthroat Compet... by crdoconnor on Thursday April 25, 2019 @05:42PM (#19752777)
The companies ive seen try this receive an ungodly number of complaints about how theyre ruining open source.
Re:Amazon Has Gone from Neutral Platform to Cutthroat Compet... by toyg on Thursday April 25, 2019 @05:53PM (#19752856)
Business and the internet both require pretty thick skins in isolation; combined, they require a turtleshell-like thickness. At some point one has to learn to suck it up.
Re:Amazon Has Gone from Neutral Platform to Cutthroat Compet... by sovande on Thursday April 25, 2019 @06:07PM (#19752950)
MongoDB used to use AGPL, but apparently that was not good enough. Not sure why?
Re:Amazon Has Gone from Neutral Platform to Cutthroat Compet... by jackbravo on Thursday April 25, 2019 @06:32PM (#19753103)
From https://www.mongodb.com/press/mongodb-issues-new-server-side...

> AGPL meant companies who wanted to modify and run MongoDB as a publicly available service had to open source their software or obtain a commercial license from MongoDB

With the new license:

> The only substantive change is an explicit condition that any organization attempting to exploit MongoDB as a service must open source the software that it uses to offer such service

Aaaaaaaaaaaand from the license text itself https://www.mongodb.com/licensing/server-side-public-license:

> “Service Source Code” means the Corresponding Source for the Program or the modified version, and the Corresponding Source for all programs that you use to make the Program or modified version available as a service, including, without limitation, management software, user interfaces, application program interfaces, automation software, monitoring software, backup software, storage software and hosting software, all such that a user could run an instance of the service using the Service Source Code you make available.

Re:Amazon Has Gone from Neutral Platform to Cutthroat Compet... by Tsubasachan on Thursday April 25, 2019 @05:36PM (#19752734)
Make stuff people want to pay for? If they don't want to pay for it its shit and you move on.
Re:Amazon Has Gone from Neutral Platform to Cutthroat Compet... by IshKebab on Thursday April 25, 2019 @04:43PM (#19752333)
Open core seems to be a good model that satisfies people that want open source stuff but still lets you charge for some features that your competitors can't easily steal.

Gitlab is a good example.

Re:Amazon Has Gone from Neutral Platform to Cutthroat Compet... by brunoqc on Thursday April 25, 2019 @05:01PM (#19752480)
I'm not sure about open core. Why should we contribute to an open core project? What if I want to add a feature that is locked away in the enterprise version? I can't fork for one feature and they won't add it to the main product.
Re:Amazon Has Gone from Neutral Platform to Cutthroat Compet... by tracker1 on Thursday April 25, 2019 @07:59PM (#19753673)
I'm a fan of Open core... the issues come down to a lot of the time, projects will reject contributions, and have pulled features that allow competition with their non-core features.

On the one hand, I really do understand the needs here, on the other I wish there was a better option.

I wouldn't even mind seeing something like the new MongoDB license + open-core as a non-profit organization that funded the development of several shared projects, where what licensing it does get is directly towards development. It's much different when you are absolutely profit driven.

There are a lot of software problems that are hard, but the results can be shared.

Re:Amazon Has Gone from Neutral Platform to Cutthroat Compet... by ausjke on Thursday April 25, 2019 @04:55PM (#19752439)
freemium/OSS the core, premium the plugins/enterprise-features is one business model.

more attractively is the all code for free model, so those who are able can use it for free, and you charge a fee for people who are in need of professional support.

a third one is still all code for free, but you can pay for hosted service instead of self-host the code, time is money for many people these days.

in all cases, you're building a group of followers with OSS, and you sell the hard-to-grasp or time-is-money-for-some-user domain expertise.

how to build your moat as far as competition goes? anyone that is smarter than you could copy all the code and do the same business model, the only thing might be a good license? however these days most OSS license are commercial friendly so I don't know how this works.

Re:Amazon Has Gone from Neutral Platform to Cutthroat Compet... by IshKebab on Sunday April 28, 2019 @05:20AM (#19770164)
I think people overestimate the number of customers that need "support". Especially given that the users of projects like these are technically extremely skilled.
Re:Amazon Has Gone from Neutral Platform to Cutthroat Compet... by kristianc on Thursday April 25, 2019 @04:37PM (#19752274)
> So how do you bootstrap your company?

Services