News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:After a $14B Upgrade, New Orleans’ Levees Are Sinking by sliken on Thursday April 18, 2019 @09:51PM (#19696430)
Fighting the entire USA coastline against rising oceans is batshit crazy and would bankrupt the country if we tried.

I always found it crazy that flood insurance would pay people to rebuild... on a flood plain. I've read stories where people rebuild once a decade or so. Seems clearly irrational and people living outside of floodplains should subsidize those that don't.

Similarly if you are high risk of fires or earthquakes you should pay a premium on insurance and that insurance should depend on reasonable mitigations. A friend moved into high risk area and they required a clear area near the house and a rooftop watering system to get the insurance that was required to get the home loan.

So yes, the country should either pay for mitigation (levees, fire control, earthquake resistant building costs etc) where it makes sense or ban developments in high risk areas. Paying for people to live below ocean level makes no sense.

Re:After a $14B Upgrade, New Orleans’ Levees Are Sinking by dragonwriter on Thursday April 18, 2019 @09:55PM (#19696449)
> Similarly if you are high risk of fires or earthquakes you should pay a premium on insurance

You do for fire risk and standard homeowners insurance doesn't cover earthquakes, you need a separate policy, which is non-free, so you are clearly paying a premium for it.

Re:After a $14B Upgrade, New Orleans’ Levees Are Sinking by PopeDotNinja on Thursday April 18, 2019 @10:55PM (#19696731)
I used to sell insurance, including homeowners. As part of selling a homeowners policy, I was supposed to ensure that a home was not ridiculously vulnerable to catching fire. An example would be making sure the owner hadn't stuffed the house full of canisters of gasoline, or that the exterior of the house wasn't in direct contact with an abundance of dry vegetation.

Any insurance company that is willing to be represented by agents too lazy too verify a home is a fire waiting to happen is gonna lose money big time. It seems the logical approach to handling house in a wildfire prone area orvavflood plain would be to simply charge stupid high rates or not offer the insurance at all.

Re:After a $14B Upgrade, New Orleans’ Levees Are Sinking by goodcanadian on Friday April 19, 2019 @02:47AM (#19697575)
It seems the logical approach to handling house in a wildfire prone area orvavflood plain would be to simply charge stupid high rates or not offer the insurance at all.

Which is exactly what insurance companies do. It is usually very difficult to get flood insurance in a flood plain. Rather than taking that as a clue that people shouldn't live there, all too often, the government steps in to subsidise the risk. I don't want to over simplify, things are complicated and sometimes it is appropriate to subsidise such risk, but sometimes it is not.

Re:After a $14B Upgrade, New Orleans’ Levees Are Sinking by lotsofpulp on Friday April 19, 2019 @04:01AM (#19697833)
Private companies don’t offer flood insurance in those areas, that cost is spread around federal taxpayers via the Nationals Flood Insurance Program.
Re:After a $14B Upgrade, New Orleans’ Levees Are Sinking by inflatableDodo on Thursday April 18, 2019 @10:03PM (#19696482)
>Paying for people to live below ocean level makes no sense.

Well, Amsterdam is currently 2 meters below sea level already and it will be pretty interesting to see what happens to New Amsterdam, I mean, York. For one thing, Manhatten is essentially floating already, they have to pump it out continuously otherwise it sinks.

edit - ok, around sea level, it isn't at 2 meters below. I stupidly thought google would be correct.

Re:After a $14B Upgrade, New Orleans’ Levees Are Sinking by sliken on Thursday April 18, 2019 @10:09PM (#19696507)
Amsterdam is an interesting example. Is Amsterdam asking anyone else to subsidize them? From what I've read they made a conscious decision that the pumping, levees and related was worth the cost of the extra acres of land they provided.

New Orleans seems to be arguing that it only makes sense if 75% of it is paid by someone else... forever.

Re:After a $14B Upgrade, New Orleans’ Levees Are Sinking by inflatableDodo on Thursday April 18, 2019 @10:31PM (#19696623)
>Is Amsterdam asking anyone else to subsidize them?

Depending on your point of view maybe half the world did, one way or another. Though I really shouldn't point fingers, being British.

Re:After a $14B Upgrade, New Orleans’ Levees Are Sinking by rots on Thursday April 18, 2019 @10:34PM (#19696636)
a lot of of economic activity in NL is below sea level. No, Amsterdam did not directly pay for it. But yes, the most profitable regions contributed the most.
Re:After a $14B Upgrade, New Orleans’ Levees Are Sinking by Kim_Bruning on Friday April 19, 2019 @04:16AM (#19697885)
As usual, it's complicated. It's a system, part of which is centuries old. Amsterdam is just 1 city.

Diverse responsibilities are divided between county, water board https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_board_(Netherlands) , province, and the "federal" government https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directorate-General_for_Public... .

Re:After a $14B Upgrade, New Orleans’ Levees Are Sinking by potiuper on Thursday April 18, 2019 @11:00PM (#19696766)
> Is Amsterdam asking anyone else to subsidize them?

Nowadays, mostly tourists. But, they come willingly to be fleeced, being priggish.

Re:After a $14B Upgrade, New Orleans’ Levees Are Sinking by nickthemagicman on Friday April 19, 2019 @02:19AM (#19697462)
Thats because most of the countries goods pass through New Orleans.
Re:After a $14B Upgrade, New Orleans’ Levees Are Sinking by treis on Thursday April 18, 2019 @10:14PM (#19696534)
>Amsterdam is currently 2 meters below sea level alread

Small parts of Amsterdam are that low. Most of the city is above sea level and the main parts are several to 10s of meters higher.

Re:After a $14B Upgrade, New Orleans’ Levees Are Sinking by inflatableDodo on Thursday April 18, 2019 @10:47PM (#19696695)
You are right, I trusted google and I repent. Most of it is pretty much at sea level though and they still have to spend a hell if a lot of effort in keeping the sea away.
Re:After a $14B Upgrade, New Orleans’ Levees Are Sinking by cobookman on Thursday April 18, 2019 @09:56PM (#19696451)
If Insurance is priced right who cares. Your insurance factors in the risk of loosing the home, and should ensure the insurance company always wins long term.
Re:After a $14B Upgrade, New Orleans’ Levees Are Sinking by wongarsu on Thursday April 18, 2019 @10:07PM (#19696497)
Normally I agree with you, but I am told in the US flood insurance is basically a government fund and doesn't operate like a private profit-seeking insurance at all. This leads to weird cases where people just rebuild in the same place in full knowledge that they will rebuild again in a few years, with flood insurance covering the expense.
Re:After a $14B Upgrade, New Orleans’ Levees Are Sinking by cobookman on Friday April 19, 2019 @02:39PM (#19701886)
"If insurance is priced right..."

Aka if we priced insurance at the right level. You'd likely see people stop buying homes on some of these flood plains. As insruance would cost too much.

Re:After a $14B Upgrade, New Orleans’ Levees Are Sinking by zdragnar on Thursday April 18, 2019 @10:55PM (#19696730)
The premiums for flood insurance can be pretty steep, and I would be extremely surprised if the fund operated at a loss. In my case, the annual premium is a little over 1% of the covered value, even though the historical record high (back in the 1960's) would probably only require about 10% of the total coverage purchased to replace (in this case, mostly from a few out buildings that are a little lower than the house itself).
Re:After a $14B Upgrade, New Orleans’ Levees Are Sinking by bronson on Thursday April 18, 2019 @11:32PM (#19696898)
Then you're extremely surprised.

"Currently, the NFIP’s debt totals $24.6 billion, nearly six times the program’s total annual receipts of $4.3 billion"

https://www.cbo.gov/system/files/115th-congress-2017-2018/re...

And Planet Money, as always, has a great take:

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2017/09/29/554603161/epis...

Re:After a $14B Upgrade, New Orleans’ Levees Are Sinking by zdragnar on Friday April 19, 2019 @02:16AM (#19697453)
After doing some more digging, it turns out that roughly 20% of NFIP policies are subsidized, and the up-to $30b debt was authorized by Congress in 2012 due to the shortfalls.

80% of the policies (the non-subsidized ones) are thought to be actuarially sound, barring unintended consequences of out-of-date flood maps.

So, I'm not terribly surprised. Were it operating like a traditional insurer, it might even be doing fine (especially if it had some other reforms such as eliminating or having better oversight over WYO policies).

Re:After a $14B Upgrade, New Orleans’ Levees Are Sinking by CPLX on Thursday April 18, 2019 @10:06PM (#19696491)
People rebuild all sorts of stuff all the time. Look around your average city or drive around and tell me how old all the buildings are. You’ll notice most of them are less than 20-40 years old. And the ones that aren’t have almost certainly been essentially rebuilt recently in practice.

We knock stuff down and change or rebuild it all the time, there’s no such thing as permanent against the weather. Or just changing tastes and technology, I mean indoor plumbing is less than 100 years old. Shit changes.

Re:After a $14B Upgrade, New Orleans’ Levees Are Sinking by jefftk on Thursday April 18, 2019 @10:44PM (#19696678)
> indoor plumbing is less than 100 years old

Huh? The house I grew up in was built in 1895 and had plumbing from the start.

It looks like rich people started getting indoor plumbing in the early 1800s (the White House got it in 1833) and it was widespread in new construction by the end of the century.

Re:After a $14B Upgrade, New Orleans’ Levees Are Sinking by CPLX on Thursday April 18, 2019 @10:59PM (#19696760)
I mean it existed before that of course. But it wasn’t widespread until the 1930s.
Re:After a $14B Upgrade, New Orleans’ Levees Are Sinking by Gibbon1 on Thursday April 18, 2019 @11:41PM (#19696925)
Cities had indoor plumbing, electricity, and teliphones fairly early.

Isolated rural houses often much later.