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Re:Hungarian opera singers declaring themselves African-Amer... by sandworm101 on Thursday April 11, 2019 @11:36AM (#19635658)
When I was at school in the US I had a minor medical procedure. One of the forms required me to list my race. My doctor was Egyptian and having grown up in the middle east myself we joked about whether he qualified as African american or if he could medically identify my race. Race has no medical definitions and worldwide few courts would ever dare tell someone their race. This case is going nowhere. The opera has made a valid artistic point and won't be forced to change the cast.

That said, the US is one of the few places where courts remain willing to determine race and/or religious identity. It isn't common but it does come up (wills, immigration/asylum, some issues involving native american tribes, and cases where people have lied on various forms). If this case can find a way into a US court the opera would not win.

Re:Hungarian opera singers declaring themselves African-Amer... by toasterlovin on Thursday April 11, 2019 @12:47PM (#19636503)
> Race has no medical definitions

On the contrary, race is extremely useful information in certain medical contexts. Black Americans have different risk profiles for certain cardio-vascular conditions than white Americans. And European Jews suffer a higher incidence of certain recessive genetic diseases (so much so that genetic screening is basically routine for couples where both parents have Ashkenazi ancestry).

Re:Hungarian opera singers declaring themselves African-Amer... by x0137294744532 on Thursday April 11, 2019 @01:05PM (#19636703)
You are describing the ethnicity, not the race. Race refers only to the skin color of the person, whereas ethnicity refers to the cultural and lineage aspect of that person.
Re:Hungarian opera singers declaring themselves African-Amer... by toasterlovin on Thursday April 11, 2019 @01:22PM (#19636907)
The line between the two terms is blurry, but race is certainly not strictly about skin color. Here is the definition of race in my computer's dictionary:

> Each of the major divisions of humankind, having distinct physical characteristics.

Then, further down:

> a group of people sharing the same culture, history, language, etc.; an ethnic group

Re:Hungarian opera singers declaring themselves African-Amer... by ScottFree on Thursday April 11, 2019 @01:29PM (#19636990)
If you look up the definitions of those words using the 1828 dictionary, you get something very interesting.

ETH'NICAL, adjective [Latin ethnicus; Gr. from nation from the root of G. heide, heath, woods, whence heathen. See Heathen.]

Heathen; pagan; pertaining to the gentiles or nations not converted to christianity; opposed to Jewish and Christian.

ETH'NIC, noun A heathen; a pagan.

RACE, noun [Latin radix and radius having the same original. This word coincides in origin with rod, ray, radiate, etc.]

1. The lineage of a family, or continued series of descendants from a parent who is called the stock. A race is the series of descendants indefinitely. Thus all mankind are called the race of Adam; the Israelites are of the race of Abraham and Jacob. Thus we speak of a race of kings, the race of Clovis or Charlemagne; a race of nobles, etc.

Re:Hungarian opera singers declaring themselves African-Amer... by sandworm101 on Thursday April 11, 2019 @03:28PM (#19638254)
Which is more complicated by the US concept of an "american race", something that isn't even seen as racial in term of skin color. It is used to draw a line between those descendants of the stock "real" Americans.

To quote the TV Show American Dad's theme song "Shining a salute to the American race." ... a line I thought would be very controversial but just isn't.

Re:Hungarian opera singers declaring themselves African-Amer... by toasterlovin on Thursday April 11, 2019 @04:18PM (#19638726)
FWIW, I have never encountered the concept of the "American race". Are you sure it's actually a thing? To me the line from American Dad's theme song seems like a joke (since America has many races).
Re:Hungarian opera singers declaring themselves African-Amer... by ScottFree on Thursday April 11, 2019 @04:28PM (#19638840)
According to Webster's 1828 dictionary

AMER'ICAN, noun A native of America; originally applied to the aboriginals, or copper-colored races, found here by the Europeans; but now applied to the descendants of Europeans born in America.

Re:Hungarian opera singers declaring themselves African-Amer... by toasterlovin on Thursday April 11, 2019 @05:01PM (#19639170)
That's nice, but:

1. It's a definition for the word 'American', not the phrase 'American race'.

2. It's from 1828. I don't think usage from 190 years ago is very relevant. Language changes pretty quickly.

3. That does not match what OP was talking about. They were talking about a further distinction within white Americans. Unless I'm mistaken.

Re:Hungarian opera singers declaring themselves African-Amer... by vt100 on Thursday April 11, 2019 @11:51AM (#19635851)
If the performances only take place in Hungary, it's pretty unlikely that US court has jurisdiction.
Re:Hungarian opera singers declaring themselves African-Amer... by sandworm101 on Thursday April 11, 2019 @12:10PM (#19636085)
Gershwin was american. I assume his kids/estate is american. So this involved a contract between a European opera company and US persons regarding a work protected by US copyright law. They could probably file in a US court and a court may well determine that the US is the better place the hear the case. (When between a person and a corporation, US court tend side with the person's location on issues of jurisdiction. If someone is going to get on a plane, they think it easier for the corporation.) It is a possibility.
Re:Hungarian opera singers declaring themselves African-Amer... by deogeo on Thursday April 11, 2019 @12:36PM (#19636376)
> a work protected by US copyright law

I don't think this is entirely correct. It's only protected by US law in the US - in all other countries, it's protected by their local laws. That's the reason for international agreements to harmonize copyright between countries, such as the Berne convention.

Re:Hungarian opera singers declaring themselves African-Amer... by geezerjay on Thursday April 11, 2019 @01:33PM (#19637036)
> work protected by US copyright law.

Only within the US jurisdiction. US law does not superpose or replace the laws of other jurisdictions.

Re:Hungarian opera singers declaring themselves African-Amer... by sandworm101 on Thursday April 11, 2019 @02:40PM (#19637802)
I said the work was protected by US copyright law, not that US copyright law would necessarily be used in the case. That the opera is a US work can be relevant to jurisdiction rather than the case in chief.

Copyright would probably not be an issue. This looks like a simple contract dispute, a debate re whether one party is abiding a term in a licensing agreement.

Re:Hungarian opera singers declaring themselves African-Amer... by ghda on Thursday April 11, 2019 @03:47PM (#19638431)
Are people obliged to abide by an obviously racially discriminatory contract under EU law?
Re:Hungarian opera singers declaring themselves African-Amer... by sandworm101 on Thursday April 11, 2019 @05:30PM (#19639435)
If EU law is applied, no. If American law control, probably yes. This is a contract between an american and an EU organization so there will be a fight over which law controls the contract. Due to the split between the various US states, American contracts normally have some language stating which jurisdiction's laws should be used to interpret the contract. If this was a stock licensing deal from the estate it probably names a US state.