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Re:Startup Stock Options – Why a Good Deal Has Gone Bad by mdorazio on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @11:25AM (#19625617)
FWIW, I've worked with a lot of entry-level people at normal companies over the years and would estimate that noob gainz are 30-50% higher in startup land for the first 1-2 years of career, maybe 10-20% higher the next two, then flat or actually lower than corporate thereafter. I think it comes down to 1) startups pile a lot more responsibility onto their young hires than normal companies are comfortable with + 2) startups have a lot higher tolerance for failure + 3) small companies in general don't have headcount for specialized roles, so everyone has to level up in multiple areas.
Re:Startup Stock Options – Why a Good Deal Has Gone Bad by jpm_sd on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @12:14PM (#19626119)
I've worked at two startups, then a BigCo, and now another startup. The wearing of many hats was definitely a leveling-up experience, but I felt that I plateaued in just the way you describe. Equity from both of those first two startups is now worth zero.

In my years at BigCo I worked with engineers who have 10-20 years more experience than I do. Often felt like the dumbest guy in the room. I learned a ton. No comparison. But I would never have gotten the job there without my previous startup experience. And without that experience I'm not sure I would even have been able to learn from my BigCo co-workers so successfully.

I got tired of corporate politics and a high traffic commute, so now I'm happily back in startup land.

Re:Startup Stock Options – Why a Good Deal Has Gone Bad by arcticbull on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @01:44PM (#19627048)
I feel similarly; I started my career at a BigCo, didn't get much out of it, joined a fairly young company, with (1) more responsibility than someone of my tenure should reasonably have due to (2) high tolerance for failure and (3) they didn't have headcount for the specialized role I was doing. Going back to a BigCo, the experience there was utterly invaluable. I realized that my first go round I had absolutely no idea what I should even be trying to get out of it. This time's different.

There's huge value to getting the lay of the land.

Re:Startup Stock Options – Why a Good Deal Has Gone Bad by twic on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @03:04PM (#19627760)
I think there's a similar dynamic with consulting - ThoughtWorks / Pivotal Labs type places. You get shunted around between many different projects, there are never enough people, so there are opportunities to take more responsibilities, and things are often a bit fluid, because a consultancy coming in tends to (should!) crack the organisation a bit. There are downsides to all of that, but it's also a way of getting wider faster, if not getting a lot deeper.
Re:Startup Stock Options – Why a Good Deal Has Gone Bad by jacques_chester on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @09:38PM (#19630390)
I worked in Pivotal Labs for about two years. It is an amazing place to learn the craft.
Re:Startup Stock Options – Why a Good Deal Has Gone Bad by enjo on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @12:29PM (#19626282)
Yes startups will give you more responsibility, but that comes at the cost of far less mentorship. I often wonder if people only feel like they're growing faster at startups because the results are a bit more visible.

It is true that it's easier to be stagnant as an associate at a larger company. If you're not interested in taking on new challenges you can generally sort of fall through the cracks. However, folks who are proactive at a FAANG style company can find great mentors and support to develop skills really quickly. Often skills that simply aren't available to people at startups...

What's more valuable: spending your formative years working on systems at really high scale, or building a quick RoR MVP and managing 3 VM's in AWS for a startup?

Re:Startup Stock Options – Why a Good Deal Has Gone Bad by fjp on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @12:49PM (#19626505)
You're not taking into account when the larger company simply won't allow you to to work on X because you're not the right team, title or level.

You may never get to manage a cloud VM. You will probably never get to help decide how a CI build pipeline works, how engineering hiring should work, etc etc.

I'm not discounting your point about learning to develop software at scale, but your overall scope of responsibility is much narrower. It's a tradeoff.

Re:Startup Stock Options – Why a Good Deal Has Gone Bad by arcticbull on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @01:45PM (#19627058)
You won't get to do those things at BigCo likely until you've done it at a startup.
Re:Startup Stock Options – Why a Good Deal Has Gone Bad by rhizome on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @01:25PM (#19626858)
* If you're not interested in taking on new challenges you can generally sort of fall through the cracks.*

BigCo titles are much more narrowly defined, so most of the time you can't even see the parts that might have new challenges...or cracks.

Re:Startup Stock Options – Why a Good Deal Has Gone Bad by pickle-wizard on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @05:19PM (#19628889)
It depends. When I was at IBM I worked on a small team and we had about 4000 VMs/systems I was the Network Guy, the Storage Guy, the VMware Guy, the Windows Guy, the Linux Guy, the AIX guy, the AS/400 guy, and the Security Guy. Gees now that I think about it, no wonder I was so stressed out back them.

I learned a lot from that job and it opened a lot of doors for me in my career.

Re:Startup Stock Options – Why a Good Deal Has Gone Bad by UweSchmidt on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @12:24PM (#19626228)
Just pointing out that noob gainz would be the easily-attained gains at the beginning (of a weightlifting program), suggesting that maybe you learn so much basic stuff at the beginning of your first job, regardless what job it is.

http://nattyornot.com/bodybuilding-basics-noob-gains-explain...

Re:Startup Stock Options – Why a Good Deal Has Gone Bad by rrdharan on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @12:57PM (#19626582)
> 2) startups have a lot higher tolerance for failure

I disagree. They have, necessarily, a greater willingness to accept risk since they are already in a risky situation by definition.

If anything the startup is likely less tolerant of failure compared to a big established business, in that it has nothing to fall back on and will simply fail and go out of business.

Re:Startup Stock Options – Why a Good Deal Has Gone Bad by sweeeety on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @12:32PM (#19626323)
I resonate with your observation. I did the reverse, i.e.: FANG, fintech, pre-ipo then start-up after already achieved senior staff level. Start-up didn't tech me anything new unfortunately.