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Re:Chicago is tracking kids with GPS monitors that can recor... by rayiner on Monday April 08, 2019 @04:59PM (#19608975)
15 year olds are not, and never have been, "children." They're adolescents. We have long recognized that people of that age are distinct from both children and adults in that they're capable of a wide variety of (often destructive) adult behaviors, but aren't put together enough to be fully accountable for that. That's fine--that's why the law tackles culpability for adolescents on a case-by-case basis.

Calling them "children" is both inaccurate, and a rhetorically sneaky way to mitigate culpability, responsibility, and agency. Controlling adolescents is one of society's most important functions, precisely because of the mismatch between destructive potential and impulse control. Society thus expects adolescents to control their behavior. It might give them more leeway in that regard, but they are not (and should not be) treated like children, who generally are held harmless for their misconduct.

Re:Chicago is tracking kids with GPS monitors that can recor... by dragonwriter on Monday April 08, 2019 @05:08PM (#19609055)
> 15 year olds are not, and never have been, "children." They're adolescents.

“Children” does not now generally exclude adolescents, but extends to all pre-adults. We have terms that are more specific that do exclude adolescents, but “children” isn't generally one of them (though in certainly contexts the term might have special definitions.)

(Historically, it may havenexclude some or all adolescents, but that's because in most cultures, adult included some or all adolescents.)

> Controlling adolescents is one of society's most important functions,precisely because of the mismatch between destructive potential and impulse control.

Arguably, but then directly contradicted by:

> Society thus expects adolescents to control their behavior

Does society deem control of adolescents an important social function because it expects that adolescents lack adequate impulse control given their destructive potential or does it not see such a gap and expect that they have adequate impulse control for self-containment? Your second statement cannot be a consequence of the first, it is an incompatible expectation.

Re:Chicago is tracking kids with GPS monitors that can recor... by rayiner on Monday April 08, 2019 @05:14PM (#19609104)
"Children" including adolescents is a very new (and very pernicious) idea.

> Does society deem control of adolescents an important social function because it expects that adolescents lack adequate impulse control given their destructive potential or does it not see such a gap and expect that they have adequate impulse control for self-containment?

There is nothing contradictory. Society holds children harmless because they're not generally cognitively capable of distinguishing right from wrong. Adolescents are, and are expected to behave. Society acknowledges that adolescents often have problems actually doing the right thing, but doesn't treat that as an excuse that mitigates culpability, as for children. Instead, they tailor punishment on a case-by-case basis to accommodate that fact. (Also, historically, they put adolescents to work, to reduce the avenues for misbehavior. Idle hands and whatnot.)

Re:Chicago is tracking kids with GPS monitors that can recor... by tptacek on Monday April 08, 2019 @07:40PM (#19610249)
Adolescents are not, as a general rule, expected to have the cognitive faculties of adults, which is why they aren't usually tried as adults, why they can't vote, why they can't buy alcohol, and why they can't drive cars without additional rules (in graduated license states).
Re:Chicago is tracking kids with GPS monitors that can recor... by Tomte on Tuesday April 09, 2019 @10:26AM (#19614983)
> which is why they aren't usually tried as adults

It seems to me that America and the United Kingdom often try children, not just adolescents, as adults.

I'm sure that's reporting bias, and it only happens to a miniscule proportion of underage offenders, but what is the actual guideline there?