News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Second-Order Thinking: What Smart People Use to Outperfor... by coldtea on Friday April 05, 2019 @07:21AM (#19581466)
>This isn't second order thinking. Deciding to eat a salad when you're hungry instead of a candy bar because you value health over immediate satisfaction is discipline, not intelligence.

Nope, it is. Instead of sticking to a solution that only solves the immediate problem (hunger, first order), he changed the solution based on the adverse side-effects of going with the first solution (hunger solved, but health worsened, second order).

>Second order thinking would be choosing a salad when you're hungry so that salad becomes associated with relieving hunger, thus making it easier to choose salads going forward, which will create a positive feedback loop keeping you on your diet.

Nope, that's motivation engineering, which is orthogonal to second order thinking.

Re:Second-Order Thinking: What Smart People Use to Outperfor... by jerf on Friday April 05, 2019 @09:08AM (#19582114)
"Nope, it is. Instead of sticking to a solution that only solves the immediate problem (hunger, first order), he changed the solution based on the adverse side-effects of going with the first solution (hunger solved, but health worsened, second order)."

Yup. This just happens to be something that we get pounded into us (not without merit) a lot, so it's something that people understand fairly well.

Consequently, as a gateway into understanding higher-order thinking, it's really poor, because this "knowledge" has all but bypassed rational thinking at this point due to being repeated for us to the point that it's been internalized.

I'd say this is why the trivial examples are also uninteresting to people. If it's something obvious enough that everyone has figured it out, making it an accessible example, it also doesn't seem like higher order thinking.

Re:Second-Order Thinking: What Smart People Use to Outperfor... by coldtea on Friday April 05, 2019 @10:37AM (#19582940)
Well, here's a non-trivial example, but still easy to follow, that describes second order effects quite well:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobra_effect