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Re:Approval Voting versus Instant Runoff Voting by dsfyu404ed on Thursday April 04, 2019 @08:18AM (#19571257)
As a libertarian anything that increases the ability of a 3rd party go gain traction interest me but something smells very off about the recent uptick in discussion of alternatives. If these changes were actually beneficial to the underdog in the general case you'd see them being pushed by the left or the right on a state by state basis depending on the political make up of any given state. The parties aren't run by idiots. They've crunched the numbers. They know whether the alternatives would benefit them or not. Likewise it makes me very uneasy that we mostly only see people who align with one party pushing for alternate systems.

I'm not opposed to alternate voting systems but I'd like to see one actually increase the power of the underdog(s) in a one party state (the only kind of state where the powers that be feel secure enough to make this kind of change) in the US before I support one. I don't want something that sounds good but furthers the status quo. Political diversity is one of the US's strengths and anything that furthers the status quo is bad for that.

Edit: why is this opinion unacceptable?

Re:Approval Voting versus Instant Runoff Voting by pmyteh on Thursday April 04, 2019 @08:51AM (#19571616)
<raises hand>

And political scientists! (No-one listens to us, of course).

More seriously, the case for standard First-Past-The-Post voting is really bad in terms of its decision-making properties. It's really only as dominant as it is, where it is, because of its historical position. Exactly what you might replace it with is a trickier question, with multiple plausible candidates, all better than FPTP and all different from each other. I lean towards Single Transferable Vote, and its special case AV/IRV in single member elections, but reasonable people can disagree.

Intriguingly, the British Parliament has just effectively used approval voting to try to break its Brexit deadlock. It failed in this case largely because many members voted highly tactically for their 'ideal' option only, not for what they could live with. AV/IRV would have been a better choice, I think, if a compromise winner was actually wanted.

Re:Approval Voting versus Instant Runoff Voting by lupire on Thursday April 04, 2019 @09:00AM (#19571722)
The main benefit of FPTP, for third parties, is that they can hijack elections by acting as "anti-tiebreaker" (Threatening to turn their nearest ally into a lose by joining the election, unless that nearest ally adopts their platform). This is why third parties generally (and openly) advocate for FPTP.

Of course, the simple and well-tested solution is to reduce the power of the Executive, move power to Parliament, and assign power proportionally to parties.

Re:Approval Voting versus Instant Runoff Voting by barry-cotter on Thursday April 04, 2019 @09:31AM (#19572040)
> The main benefit of FPTP, for third parties, is that they can hijack elections by acting as "anti-tiebreaker" (Threatening to turn their nearest ally into a lose by joining the election, unless that nearest ally adopts their platform). This is why third parties generally (and openly) advocate for FPTP.

This isn’t true in the U.K., the only country where a third party recently tried electoral reform in a country with FPTP. The Liberal Democrats wanted to get rid of FPTP.

Re:Approval Voting versus Instant Runoff Voting by notahacker on Thursday April 04, 2019 @10:51AM (#19572980)
True, but then the Lib Dems were succeeded by UKIP as the third party and the electoral threat they posed to the Conservative Party was a significant factor in putting moves to leave the EU onto the Conservative Party's agenda despite its leadership's reluctance.

Of course, without skewed vote shares due to FPTP and with a limited choice of realistic coalition partners for a future government, that third party can achieve exactly the same thing through coalition bargaining anyway.

Re:Approval Voting versus Instant Runoff Voting by jagger27 on Thursday April 04, 2019 @09:42AM (#19572150)
Interesting idea, but it definitely doesn't pan out that way in Canada. The NDP and Liberals happily knee-cap themselves into a vote split.

Though there is also some precedent in Canada with previous Conservative party mergers.

Re:Approval Voting versus Instant Runoff Voting by specialist on Thursday April 04, 2019 @10:38AM (#19572814)
I advocate approval voting for executive positions, proportional representation for assemblies, and fair redistricting.

That combo will reform our duopoly. Plus other benefits, like improve campaign civility and reduce polarization.

(FWIW, I upvoted you for your end goal.)

Re:Approval Voting versus Instant Runoff Voting by adnfo883kkd on Thursday April 04, 2019 @10:19AM (#19572578)
I'm also libertarian (leaning, in the sense I have voted for libertarian candidates in multiple elections at multiple levels, but not most of the time) but do research on this. I am not sure what to say to allay your concerns, except to say that mathematically/statistically speaking approval voting is what I would implement after a rating system, which I think is the best but also maybe the most cumbersome.

I personally don't really care about the political impetus behind changing the election format (not to say I don't care about politics, just that in the case of alternative voting systems the standard US format is almost the worst you could do). Anything that moves the US toward something better would be an improvement.

My one concern is that for whatever reason ranking systems seem to be the thing being pushed most, when approval or rating systems would probably be better.

Changing to an approval system would probably be the easiest way to increase 3rd party viability at the moment. Which of those 3rd parties would benefit is a different issue, but approval systems allow people to diversify their expressed preferences, so at the very least it wouldn't be worse for 3rd party candidates.

The basic issue is that plurality voting is a very poor measure of preference. Imagine if you were asked to measure height of 5 people in the room, 3 of whom are over 6 feet 10 inches tall. You could report how tall they are; this is most similar to a rating system. You could rank order their heights; this preserves rank ordering information but not anything about absolute difference, so the two people who are 7'2" and 7'1" look as different as the people who are 7'2" and 5'2". You could also ask people to just mark which are taller than 6'10", which at least acknowledges that more than one person could be taller than 6'10", and preserves some info about absolute height. Or, you could do as is standard, and just indicate who is tallest, which doesn't preserve much information at all about height.