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Re:The Third Phase of Clean Energy Will Be Most Disruptive Yet by danans on Wednesday April 03, 2019 @01:58PM (#19565562)
The insanity is that tons of houses have central air conditioning systems installed without a thought, and those are just heat pumps that can only be run one direction, for cooling.

The problem is that heat pump based heaters and cooling devices are still produced, marketed, and priced for the green and well off crowd, not the general public.

In the general public has no concept that the same technology they use for cooling could be used to heat their homes.

So far the manufacturers of heat pumps seem content with their well-off niche, and don't seem interested in scaling production so that the technology is available to regular folks.

Perhaps the margins on heat pumps aren't as good and they don't want to cannibalize their existing businesses selling natural gas powered heating systems, which they probably manufacture for a song (recall how Carrier ended up moving their home furnace production to Mexico anyway despite the political show that was made of them supposedly staying in Indiana)

In other parts of the world many split heat pump systems are much cheaper.

Re:The Third Phase of Clean Energy Will Be Most Disruptive Yet by Scoundreller on Wednesday April 03, 2019 @02:11PM (#19565722)
Or an air conditioner along with a separate pool heater.

Or a fridge/freezer that dumps out heat indoors during A/C season, and/or a hot water heater that isn’t combined with the refrigeration system.

A single heat pump could run it all: fridge, freezer, pool, HVAC and hot water. Maybe even a pre-heat element on a stove top.

Re:The Third Phase of Clean Energy Will Be Most Disruptive Yet by sbierwagen on Wednesday April 03, 2019 @03:24PM (#19566392)
>Maybe even a pre-heat element on a stove top.

Going a little far there. The preheat loop would have to survive regular heating element temperatures, and most common refrigerants decompose above 500C.

Re:The Third Phase of Clean Energy Will Be Most Disruptive Yet by Scoundreller on Wednesday April 03, 2019 @05:30PM (#19567410)
More like a keep-warm element on the stove top. Maybe it’s too close to the heating elements. Dunno. Would probably be fine for an inductive range.
Re:The Third Phase of Clean Energy Will Be Most Disruptive Yet by sokoloff on Wednesday April 03, 2019 @10:35PM (#19568903)
Stovetop elements get over 900* F? That doesn’t seem intuitively right to me.
Re:The Third Phase of Clean Energy Will Be Most Disruptive Yet by sbierwagen on Thursday April 04, 2019 @02:00AM (#19569689)
Both electric and infrared stovetops can get hot enough to glow red, which means they have to be at least 550C: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_heat
Re:The Third Phase of Clean Energy Will Be Most Disruptive Yet by philipkglass on Wednesday April 03, 2019 @02:29PM (#19565913)
The problem is that heat pump based heaters and cooling devices are still produced, marketed, and priced for the green and well off crowd, not the general public.

When I was growing up I lived in a suburban American house that was built in 1982 and had a heat pump. It was a middle class suburb and none of the adults were environmental activists. Every house in the neighborhood had a heat pump. I thought this was totally normal.

With hindsight, I see that there was significantly more American concern about energy efficiency in the late 1970s and early 1980s than in the early 1990s, probably due to resumption of relatively low oil prices in the mid 1980s. It's sad that the attention to efficiency did not continue after the immediate crisis had passed.

Re:The Third Phase of Clean Energy Will Be Most Disruptive Yet by bluGill on Wednesday April 03, 2019 @02:40PM (#19566000)
The concern for energy efficiency died in the mid 1980s because there were a lot of badly done improvements. Many houses were insulated better - with a foam that had hazardous off gas problems. New homes were often insulated well and rotted away because the insulation trapped moisture. Heat pumps sounded good, but were useless on the cold days and so people paid huge power bills in January for electric heat.

None of the above problems are inherent in energy efficiency, but they did give the whole field a bad name.

Re:The Third Phase of Clean Energy Will Be Most Disruptive Yet by _delirium on Wednesday April 03, 2019 @04:47PM (#19567140)
In the UK, electric heating also got a reputation for not really having working temperature control. Because it was expensive to heat using day-rate electricity, most UK homes with electric heating have some kind of heat-storage system that charges at night at the "Economy 7" rate. The apartment I lived in (built 1984) heated up something like 100 lbs (60 kg) of ceramic blocks, for example. You could sort-of regulate how fast this heat dissipated during the day by opening and closing a vent, but in practice the biggest usable knob was choosing how much to charge overnight. That meant you had to predict before going to bed how much heat you'd want the next day! One strategy is to go very warm and then open your windows to cool back down if you overshot. Another strategy is to somewhat under-heat and then have a portable electric space heater to add extra heat in your immediate vicinity (though this is a common source of fires).