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Re:Flaws in Bitcoin make a lasting revival unlikely by tptacek on Wednesday March 27, 2019 @04:56PM (#19505940)
Am I reading this right:

Chainalysis reckons that Bitcoin accounted for around $812bn of genuine transfers of value.

Of that, Ms Grauer reckons, only a fraction was used to buy things. Around $2.4bn went to merchant-service providers, which handle payments for businesses—a piffling sum compared with the $17trn of transactions such as Alipay and WeChat Pay, two Chinese payment apps, in 2017. Darknet markets, which sell stolen credit-card details, recreational drugs, cheap medicines and the like, made up $605m, and gambling sites $857m. Most of the rest was related to speculation.

Is this saying that less than 1% of all "genuine transfers of value" in Bitcoin are for goods and services other than speculation?

Re:Flaws in Bitcoin make a lasting revival unlikely by kirbypineapple on Wednesday March 27, 2019 @05:08PM (#19506041)
According to wikipedia, the global FX market alone accounts for $5.09 trillion dollars per day in transactions [0] in 2016. Global GDP clocked in at $75.4 trillion U.S. dollars in 2016 [1]. The FX market alone accounts for two orders of magnitude more transfers of value than global GDP...I'm sure if we started including stocks, futures, options, etc. the number would be even higher.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_exchange_market

[1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/268750/global-gross-dome...

Re:Flaws in Bitcoin make a lasting revival unlikely by duiker101 on Wednesday March 27, 2019 @05:01PM (#19505981)
Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if it was even lower. With the exception of "stunt purchases" I very rarely see any real use of any sort of cryptocurrency.
Re:Flaws in Bitcoin make a lasting revival unlikely by jandrese on Wednesday March 27, 2019 @05:04PM (#19506010)
The Silk Road drove a fair bit of actual commerce (illegal though it may be) until it was shut down, judging from the amount of money Ross Ulbricht apparently made off of the transaction fees.
Re:Flaws in Bitcoin make a lasting revival unlikely by josu on Wednesday March 27, 2019 @05:18PM (#19506143)
Most of the money is just moving for trading/speculation purposes, from one exchange to another, or from exchange to wallet and vice versa. And there is a lot of trading going on, so I don't know if looking at it in relative terms makes that much sense.

They are two separate use cases, and so far not that many people are using cryptocurrencies for payments. Even if the payments use case were to grow, I believe that the trading/speculation would grow even more, so the payments use case will keep being a small percentage, at least for the short and medium term.

Re:Flaws in Bitcoin make a lasting revival unlikely by xorcist on Wednesday March 27, 2019 @05:04PM (#19506012)
No, it does not. It says that less than half a percent went to well known merchant service providers. The rest did not.

The statement that the rest is speculation is, in itself, pure speculation.

We don't know how to separate speculation from non-speculation. One could easily argue that the payments to merchants is no less speculative than payments to exchanges (what does it matter if you sell your Bitcoin for a carpet or for dollars?).

There's also the fact that most speculation probably never sees the blockchain. They are simply contracts somewhere or entries in Coinbase's database.

Re:Flaws in Bitcoin make a lasting revival unlikely by tptacek on Wednesday March 27, 2019 @05:08PM (#19506042)
Sorry, I didn't ask whether you liked what they were saying; I asked whether I was reading correctly that that was what they were saying.
Re:Flaws in Bitcoin make a lasting revival unlikely by xorcist on Wednesday March 27, 2019 @05:19PM (#19506153)
I have absolutely no idea how you got that from my comment.
Re:Flaws in Bitcoin make a lasting revival unlikely by davesque on Wednesday March 27, 2019 @11:22PM (#19508926)
Could be. Although I bet it would be just as surprising (and in the same way) to find out how much activity in the "conventional" financial system is due to speculation.