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Re:Why Haven't Voters Been Buying the Case for Increasing Ho... by rayiner on Saturday March 23, 2019 @10:46PM (#19473865)
Texas is in some ways the egalitarian sort of place California pretends to be. I was talking to a cab driver in Austin who had immigrated from Morocco. He and his friends bought houses in the suburbs with pools in good school districts, which they were able to pay off in 15 years with a cab drivers’ salary. What really strikes me visiting there compared to the coastal cities is relative prosperity among ordinary people, especially the kind of people (immigrants, etc.) that people in the coastal cities like to talk a lot about. Texas also does a better job educating students from disadvantaged groups than California, despite spending less money on education: https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckdevore/2015/06/30/which-of.... For math and science, Texas has some of the highest NAEP scores in the country for black and Hispanic students, while California has some of the worst.
Re:Why Haven't Voters Been Buying the Case for Increasing Ho... by pcwalton on Saturday March 23, 2019 @11:43PM (#19474140)
The Texas Public Policy Foundation is one of the worst organizations you could cite. They're infamous for being just a front for Rick Perry's ambitions and as such are one of the groups directly responsible for the decreasing quality of Texas's higher education system. (Higher education in Texas is much worse than that of California.)

There's no denying that California has a problem with K-12 education due to Prop 13. But I grew up and was educated in Texas, and I can say the government of Texas has always been significantly more dysfunctional than the government of California. The "Texas Miracle" thing during GWB's campaign was obviously an attempt to take credit for the fact that the oil industry attracted the kind of people who care about education, not because of anything related to the government. In fact, attempting to recreate the "Texas Miracle" nationwide led to the disastrous No Child Left Behind law.

I more-likely-than-not won't end up having kids, but if I did, I would want them educated here, not in Texas. The government of Texas plays games with education to score political points in a way that the government of California does not. Besides, I question how sustainable Texas education is going to be without an income tax, and income tax is the third rail of Texas politics.

Re:Why Haven't Voters Been Buying the Case for Increasing Ho... by rayiner on Sunday March 24, 2019 @12:55AM (#19474418)
The data underlying the article is NAEP scores, which are widely respected as an objective measure of student performance. And California does awful on NAEP, and has for a long time.

As to where I’d want my kids educated—I’m thinking from the perspective of having come to this country as an immigrant. We were solidly middle class and moved to a pretty nice neighborhood in Virginia with decent schools, but there is no way we could have afforded it today. If I were in my dad’s position, I’d definitely head to Houston or Dallas rather than San Francisco or LA. Heck, when I bought my house in the DC area, I was apalled at the school situation. I didn’t want my kids to grow up in a place where a million dollar house is the buy-in for a going to a good school district. We ended up moving to a different city and just putting up with a long commute.

Re:Why Haven't Voters Been Buying the Case for Increasing Ho... by Latteland on Sunday March 24, 2019 @02:35AM (#19474795)
My dad lives in the Highland Park area of Dallas. He says people move there and pay their 20 or 30k a year in property taxes to go to a great school district as it's cheaper than a private school tuition. It sounds like the same thing. Of course that's just one example.
Re:Why Haven't Voters Been Buying the Case for Increasing Ho... by scarface74 on Sunday March 24, 2019 @10:07PM (#19479864)
How much are the houses to pay $30K-$40K in property taxes? The wealthiest city in GA is Johns Creek with top rated schools and just looking at Zillow, a home valued at $460K has property taxes around $5000.
Re:Why Haven't Voters Been Buying the Case for Increasing Ho... by Latteland on Monday March 25, 2019 @11:26PM (#19489055)
Seem to be a couple million and up.
Re:Why Haven't Voters Been Buying the Case for Increasing Ho... by foxyv on Tuesday March 26, 2019 @11:57AM (#19492986)
Texas schools are insanely well funded. The high schools here are better equipped than my college back in California. They get a lot of endowments from private sources. It has nothing to do with the kind of garbage "No Child Left Behind" created. It's all just having enough money to do the job.

My public high school in California's Inland Empire was a lot like a training camp for prison. Learning how to survive while crowded with the violent and insane. Riots happened almost every other week. Just too many kids in too small a place, and no funding to handle the problems from so many poor and broken families. You can't put 3000 kids in a school for 1000 with funding for maybe 1500 and expect anything else.

Re:Why Haven't Voters Been Buying the Case for Increasing Ho... by jacobolus on Saturday March 23, 2019 @11:48PM (#19474165)
Anecdotally, having talked to several ex-Texas-teachers, Texas sounds extremely hostile to primary education. Texas was a pioneer of the intense focus on high-stakes standardized tests and elimination of teacher autonomy.

Chuck DeVore is a partisan hack.

Re:Why Haven't Voters Been Buying the Case for Increasing Ho... by rayiner on Sunday March 24, 2019 @12:57AM (#19474430)
It’s hard to credit their anecdotal opinions over hard data. There is also quite a bit of tension between what students need, and what teachers want.

California is a particularly egregious example. It has some of the highest teacher pay in the country while having some of the lowest per-student spending in the country. That math balances on the backs of students. So teachers are happy with pay, and old homeowners are happy with their property taxes, and the students get the short end of the stick. It’s California in a microcosm.

Re:Why Haven't Voters Been Buying the Case for Increasing Ho... by pcwalton on Sunday March 24, 2019 @01:29AM (#19474553)
I can second it, having gone through the Texas public education system. The standardized testing regime in Texas is completely counterproductive, and my teachers all hated it. Texas' silly education funding system that tied funding to (among other things) student attendance caused the schools to overtly encourage sick kids to show up and spread disease. The attempt by the Bush administration attempt to deploy Texas standards nationwide in the form of No Child Left Behind was a miserable failure. The legislature is constantly playing games with the schools (e.g. putting ambiguous language in the teaching standards to appease creationists [1]).

Texas has decent K-12 education in spite of everything the government does, not because of it.

[1]: https://www.statesman.com/NEWS/20170202/Texas-education-boar...

Re:Why Haven't Voters Been Buying the Case for Increasing Ho... by identity-haver on Sunday March 24, 2019 @04:14AM (#19475105)
For anyone reading this site, the standardized testing regime in Texas is going to be a bureaucratic formality for the teachers and an afterthought for the students, where kids spend 2-4 days per year wasting time taking an easy test about stuff they already know, then dozing off for the rest of the time.

The sad reality is that Texas-style standardized tests measure basic material that students anywhere should be expected to know (take a look at the tests if you're not sure: this is not even the SAT we're dealing with). The primary purpose of them is to identify and remediate the many dysfunctional schools. If a school can't teach their kids this material and have 50% of them pass the test, they have a serious problem.

Re:Why Haven't Voters Been Buying the Case for Increasing Ho... by Latteland on Sunday March 24, 2019 @02:28AM (#19474777)
Thanks for sharing that, very interesting, not what I would have expected. What do you attribute the better outcomes in Texas to? The state has some education challenges I'm aware of, but I do't know about their successes. Texas seems to be pretty successful up to high school, but why don't they succeed for higher ed as well?

I'm always reading about attempts to put extreme conservatives on the state school board and restrict discussion of evolution and also avoid discussing uncomfortable issues around slavery and the founding of the country - that must not have had much impact. For housing, I kind of understand why Texas is much less expensive to live in, partly because they have those endless cities across the plains.

Re:Why Haven't Voters Been Buying the Case for Increasing Ho... by xemdetia on Sunday March 24, 2019 @01:46PM (#19477622)
Texas for better or worse is extremely prideful that education is baked into their state constitution from very early on so I feel there is just more state identity tied to education at many levels compared to some of the surrounding states (article 7). While I agree with others that the current outcome is not really desirable and all of the other issues going on it is a top level part of the conversation where I feel like in surrounding states it easily become a B or C priority in discussions.
Re:Why Haven't Voters Been Buying the Case for Increasing Ho... by burlesona on Sunday March 24, 2019 @03:35AM (#19474975)
One thing is TX has the “Robin Hood” rule, which essentially is that rich school districts have to transfer money to the poor ones.

I think another thing is that there’s a lot of natural lived diversity. What I mean is, for example, my parents middle middle class neighborhood street looks like: black family, white family, Indian family, Hispanic family, European first generation family, just all in a row. And that’s pretty common. I think in part getting back to the housing thing, it’s within reach of most people.

As for the “extreme conservatives,” I don’t know. I think it’s one of those things that the media likes to pounce on and blows out of proportion. Yeah sometimes they do dumb stuff but generally speaking radically conservative proposals get floated by fringe political folks in red states just like radically liberal proposals get floated in blue states, then never goes anywhere. I think it’s more fodder for the news-tainment industry than actual policy making.