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Re:Can MIPS Leapfrog RISC-V? by snazz on Friday March 22, 2019 @11:53AM (#19463741)
I really want to see an introspective, single-user, programming-centric, graphical operating system that isn’t dumbed down to the lowest common denominator. A new ISA seems like a great opportunity to ditch the current models of computing for something more Genera-esque, since we now can produce commodity hardware that is powerful enough to achieve good performance at reasonable prices.
Re:Can MIPS Leapfrog RISC-V? by AnIdiotOnTheNet on Friday March 22, 2019 @12:10PM (#19463926)
You and me both. I want something I can actually feel like I'm in control of because it not only respects me as a user but also is built on simple metaphors that map well to reality, allowing me to actually understand how it works without untangling a horrible spaghetti mess of legacy systems patched together with spit and rubberbands. Something meant to help me make my life better instead of making someone else a bunch of money making me miserable.

Sadly, I'm not aware of anybody working on such a project. Most people making "OS"s these days either just make yet-another-linux-distribution and confirm that old saying about the definition of insanity, or they're content to make some completely academic kernel that no one can use for anything but academic purposes. I wish I had the skills to start one myself.

Re:Can MIPS Leapfrog RISC-V? by snazz on Friday March 22, 2019 @12:21PM (#19464052)
How useful would a full-screen GUI application that runs on existing operating systems be? That way eliminates dealing with device drivers or building custom hardware.

The Lisp-all-the-way-down part doesn’t seem as useful as it was originally. You could get 80% of the functionality with 10% of the work of a full OS.

Re:Can MIPS Leapfrog RISC-V? by AnIdiotOnTheNet on Friday March 22, 2019 @12:46PM (#19464321)
Part of the problem with that approach is that you're still reliant on the host OS and have just pasted a new layer of abstraction over the old one. Kinda like the web. You haven't really fixed any of the problems of the underlying platform, while at the same time you've added complexity and bloat.

I think there is, perhaps, value in a middle ground. You could take the Linux kernel (chosen here for its existing driver support, openness, stable syscall ABI, and presence of virtualization and namespacing features), but throw away basically everything on top of it and build a new "operating environment". Then, over time, you could fork the kernel away, ditching legacy syscalls and features, maybe creating a stable driver ABI finally, etc.

Re:Can MIPS Leapfrog RISC-V? by CharlesColeman on Friday March 22, 2019 @01:55PM (#19465055)
> The Lisp-all-the-way-down part doesn’t seem as useful as it was originally. You could get 80% of the functionality with 10% of the work of a full OS.

You're missing the point. If the only goal was "functionality," a quick-and-dirty hack on top of existing systems would suffice.

However, the GP wants a system that's reasonably comprehensible all the way down, so he can have some confidence that it's not working against him in some way. The accidental complexity of decades of legacy software works strongly against that.

Re:Can MIPS Leapfrog RISC-V? by snazz on Friday March 22, 2019 @02:35PM (#19465519)
I completely agree with you, which is why my highest-level comment in this thread suggested using a new ISA, too. However, for practical reasons, it would be a ton of work to design and build hardware and a complete operating system. That’s the holy grail, of course, but it’s going to be hard to achieve without a large company backing it up.
Re:Can MIPS Leapfrog RISC-V? by pdimitar on Friday March 22, 2019 @02:09PM (#19465210)
> I really want to see an introspective, single-user, programming-centric, graphical operating system that isn’t dumbed down to the lowest common denominator.

Hit the nail on the head.

Things are impossibly complex and convoluted nowadays. And working against us more often than not -- as you said.

It feels like we really need to start over. All the way down to the CPU and GPU hardware architecture.

Re:Can MIPS Leapfrog RISC-V? by O_H_E on Saturday March 23, 2019 @12:18AM (#19469043)
Take a look at plan9 and haikuOS. O am not implying that this is a solved problem, just intriguing projects.