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Re:Opioids and the Labor Market (2018) by opportune on Tuesday March 12, 2019 @06:13PM (#19373606)
I can attest that disability is a way of life in certain parts of the country. $15k/year may not sound like a lot, and it objectively isn't, but a household of 2 adults and 0-2 kids pulling $30k/year in some parts of the country can actually get by pretty well. If you can get an extra $10-20k/year in free opiates that's either a great way to feed an addiction or to make money on the side. There are counties where almost half of the adult population is on some kind of disability and those also happen to be the counties hurt hardest by the opiate epidemic, and known for "pain clinics".

But, I think there is a third part of the cycle that the article you linked mentions. Nobody grows up wanting to survive off disability and being an opiate addict - while the pain clinic/disability combo might enable people entering this state, the reason people give in to this is that they have poor life prospects. Going on disability is basically giving up. We need to figure out how to provide better job and educational prospects in the areas / for the kind of people who are incentivized to go on disability so that they actually have much better options. The average West Virginian isn't intrinsically less able than the average resident of Utah

Re:Opioids and the Labor Market (2018) by nradov on Tuesday March 12, 2019 @10:22PM (#19375132)
The counties with highest disability rates were at about 26% of the overall population (not just adults) as of 2017. Washington Post has a good article about the human impact.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/local/2017/03/30/disabled-...

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Re:Opioids and the Labor Market (2018) by JetSpiegel on Tuesday March 12, 2019 @06:57PM (#19373938)
The problem is not the marginal value of labour, is that the value those people create is close to 0. Even working for free, some people will just create negative value.

The only solution is for the able to pay others to not work, through welfare. The improvements in technology should more than make up for this loss.

Re:Opioids and the Labor Market (2018) by chii on Tuesday March 12, 2019 @07:15PM (#19374060)
There's no incentive alignment between those who own the tech (the source of productivity increase), and those who would need the welfare (who would presumably be consuming some of said productivity increase).

The owners of the tech is highly likely to prefer to capture fully the output (by lowering taxes for example).

I think there should be a way to align incentives - education paid for by owners of the tech, but also a contractual obligation to work for X years for their sponsors.

Re:Opioids and the Labor Market (2018) by JetSpiegel on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @05:58AM (#19377200)
I think the incentive is basic empathy. Just because our fellow humans are economically worthless, does not mean they are lesser people.

If the point is that those people produce no value, they shouldn't work at all. They could just dig and fill ditches, but that doesn't produce value. Amazon also leeches from the public goods, but that is somehow socially acceptable.

Re:Opioids and the Labor Market (2018) by jjoonathan on Tuesday March 12, 2019 @11:58PM (#19375601)
Ah, yes, indentured servitude, a brilliant suggestion for uplifting a population out of poverty!
Re:Opioids and the Labor Market (2018) by specialist on Tuesday March 12, 2019 @11:53PM (#19375575)
I've had employees that I would have been happy to pay to stay home.

The NYC school system has the "rubber room", where unflushable employees are warehoused.

One of the reasons I support UBI is because it's cheaper than welfare for keeping certain people out of the way.

Re:Opioids and the Labor Market (2018) by charliesome on Tuesday March 12, 2019 @06:30PM (#19373753)
And what if someone's unable to work?

> Humans are rational creatures

I think this claim needs to be backed up too. There is a lot of evidence indicating that we're incredibly irrational.

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Re:Opioids and the Labor Market (2018) by NavyNuke on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @10:08AM (#19378733)
> I suspect that the biggest cause of disability is simply obesity. Government has a role to clean up the food supply and agricultural system, not to give handouts to millions of people affected by its dysfunction.

While I somewhat agree with your sentiment, and I'm not a big fan of the fact that these obese people are weighing down (no pun intended) our health care system, there really isn't a good solution that I can think of that doesn't limit these fat people's ability to make decisions about what they eat and how physically active they are day to day. I'd rather have a bunch of fatties making terrible health decisions and causing more stress on our healthcare system than having some Government representative telling people what they can or cannot do in the name of protecting them and keeping them healthy...

Re:Opioids and the Labor Market (2018) by Diederich on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @10:02AM (#19378674)
Forbidden meta comment:

While I disagree with you, I disagree with the amount of down-voting you're receiving even more.

It's unfortunate that reasonably stated views that disagree with the basic frequency of the given echo chamber are so discouraged.

Re:Opioids and the Labor Market (2018) by chillwaves on Tuesday March 12, 2019 @07:06PM (#19373996)
> family, community, religion or charity

If these are not enough?

Re:Opioids and the Labor Market (2018) by chii on Tuesday March 12, 2019 @07:17PM (#19374072)
People still got by in the past before govt welfare existed. What happened today?
Re:Opioids and the Labor Market (2018) by lenticular on Tuesday March 12, 2019 @07:35PM (#19374171)
They didn't, actually. Severe poverty was widespread on a scale we don't really see today. Not having SS, especially, lead to extreme destitution being common among the elderly.
Re:Opioids and the Labor Market (2018) by walshemj on Tuesday March 12, 2019 @07:37PM (#19374187)
They did not "get by" they died or where incarcerated on workhouses.

Many of the BBC who do you think you are series have terrible stories of peoples ancestors in workhouses.

Re:Opioids and the Labor Market (2018) by matthewmacleod on Tuesday March 12, 2019 @07:35PM (#19374174)
I mean, many of them died. Or ended up in the workhouse.
Re:Opioids and the Labor Market (2018) by DrJosiah on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @01:32AM (#19376001)
> community

Um, welfare, disability, social security, medicare, ... and all of the other "health and human services" related governmental programs are literally our entire country coming together as a community, to "provide for them".

God, you're so close. /r/selfawarewolves is calling you.

Re:Opioids and the Labor Market (2018) by jjoonathan on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @12:01AM (#19375608)
> Make the difficulty of getting employed and earning an income as easy as possible, and the jobs and work will follow.

Why should they? Demand elasticity is empirically very low for minimum wage workers. Lowering minimum wage a small amount does not create jobs, just as raising it a small amount does not eliminate them.

See: the inverted funnel plot of Doucouliagos and Stanley

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2014/02/18/business/economy/...

https://www.ctdol.state.ct.us/lweab/Doucougliagos%20&%20Stan...

Re:Opioids and the Labor Market (2018) by vernie on Tuesday March 12, 2019 @07:47PM (#19374237)
Is "green text" a pejorative on HN?
Re:Opioids and the Labor Market (2018) by rictic on Tuesday March 12, 2019 @07:59PM (#19374317)
New account names (<2 weeks old) are colored green.