It means there are things the US healthcare provides that universals systems don't, and in a practical way that affects people, not purely in the world of ideas.

The great folly of the world universal is that it implies everything would be available, and its a step in the opposite direction: a set of things will be made available, and the things that aren't will be delivered by the private market. Private care is still a thing in most universal care countries. And even with private and public, us still produces something for people that could get free treatment.

Do you know what else affects people in a practical way, and not purely in the world of ideas?

Having to choose between medicine and the rest of life's necessities. "Can I afford both my kid's insulin and my rent this month?"

That's a real-world consequence which, offhand, only the US healthcare system offers.

I disagree, I think this is the real-world consequence of the US regulatory environment.

How, exactly, has regulation driven the price of a drug we've had for decades up hundreds, even thousands, of percent, most of which increase happened after it was out of patent protection?

Who stops you from buying insulin outside the US and re-selling it in the domestic market?

Fascinating that drugs in Canada are perceived as so much cheaper than in the US, and yet, you know that Canada doesn't have a socialized prescription drug program? Instead, provincial health programs negotiate drug prices. You know who can't do that? Individuals. Also, Medicare.

Purely because of government intervention..

The medicare example is quite an interesting one as well. The US doesn't have the political momentum to let medicare negotiate pharma prices, and before such a basic thing is even changed, you want to hand over the entire health care insurance industry to the government?

Yes. At some point making tiny adjustments to an overwhelmingly backwards and world-leadingly inefficient system is going to be harder than starting fresh.

Okay, but if the small changes were disastrous, whats the guarantee that the big ones will not be?

Totally different things. It's like saying if I tweak this nob and it goes bad, well, why should I switch to a completely different system three counties down? Especially when that totally different system three counties down works for every other developed nation in the entire world. And also some of the developing ones. You should be defending why the American system is better than every other country in the world in spite of their lower costs, better access and better healthcare and better outcomes across the board. Private care in the US costs two times as much per capita as socialized care in Canada, doesn't cover everyone, and yet Canada's outcomes are better and Canada places higher in WHO rankings.

Making small adjustments to a doomed system is just akin to rearranging the deck chairs on the Hindenburg.

I'm suggesting maybe fixed-wing aircraft that aren't full of Hydrogen.

The american health system is worse than other countries for intense regulatory capture and regulation, thats my assessment and one shared by many economists in the healthcare space. Socialized programs dont resolve that. Having medicare for all does not abolish patent law, or creates doctors out of thin air, or reduces the cost of medical school, those are recognized problems. The socialized medicine plan is mostly hiding away the cost and paying it all through taxes: not making it cheaper. That way, the only way you can do it cheaper is by reducing the state offering.

You will not get the canadian health insurance by signing a law that says you will. You will get the american version of it. Please bear in mind medicare itself is also more expensive than canadian health services as it is, thats what the american state gives out.

>> The american health system is worse than other countries for intense regulatory capture and regulation, thats my assessment and one shared by many economists in the healthcare space.

I addressed where cost savings come from in another post you may have missed, another reply to your comment with specific examples, we can take that over there.

>> You will not get the canadian health insurance by signing a law that says you will.

Funny, that’s how we got ours in Canada in the 1970s, you should read up on it and on Tommy Douglas. No need to be defeatist.

We had a for profit system, and it was the worst, so we changed it. I’m not sure why America would be incapable of that when we weren’t. Further as in Canada, the system can be defined as the federal government requires minimum standards of care and the states execute in the way that makes sense for them.

Obviously Medicare is more expensive. America doesn’t have a free market for healthcare. The young, healthy and cheap to insure obtain cover in the private markets. All the worst customers (the sick, the old, the dying) are removed from the market and their care is already socialized. This is the definition of a manipulated market: privatized gains, socialized losses. The cost to cover for Medicare will drop substantially when the healthy pay for the sick directly the way it’s supposed to work.

Laws.

Unless "you" doesn't mean someone like me.

But then I do. Just not exactly legally.

As far as I know the FDA will stop you.

Precisely...

You need to work on your reading skills.

Focusing on the last:

> conanbatt: the price goes up because of regulation

> HN: how did regulation make insulin expensive

> conanbatt: what makes you unable to import cheap insulin?

> HN: Law

Yup. Instead of answering the question “how did regulation make insulin expensive” you did what?

Give an example

It wasn't an example. Instead of answering, you moved goalposts and asked "why don't you import stuff from Canada".

However you look at your "example", it's not good for the US.

- Canada has universal healthcare

- Canada has government regulations

- Despite all that, insulin in Canada costs less than in the US

So the original question still remains and is valid: why is insulin in the States so damn expensive? Given that the US is one of the largest insulin manufacturers in the world. And it's produced by literally the same companies.

Because the government grants the insulin manufacturer a monopoly over its citizens and enforces it with the law.

The same monopoly exists everywhere because there are very few insulin manufacturers in the world.

Try again.