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Re:Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Am... by tzs on Friday March 08, 2019 @12:25PM (#19339689)
> However, all of that goes over Comcast’s network because that’s my only viable choice for Internet service.

An antitrust breakup of Comcast would be one or both of:

1. splitting off different lines of business, such as the content production parts from the physical cable service part, or

2. splitting them into different companies geographically.

Neither of these would do much to increase your ISP options.

Re:Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Am... by AnthonyMouse on Friday March 08, 2019 @12:33PM (#19339798)
> Neither of these would do much to increase your ISP options.

The first one works if you do it properly. One of the lines of business just operates the physical infrastructure. It not only doesn't provide video service, it doesn't even provide internet service -- the end user is never their customer, their only customers are third party ISPs, who all get the same terms.

Re:Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Am... by rayiner on Friday March 08, 2019 @01:51PM (#19340795)
There is no "proper" way to do this. The U.K. does what you're describing, and U.S. broadband speeds blow away U.K. broadband speeds: https://www.speedtest.net/reports/united-kingdom/#fixed (UK); https://www.speedtest.net/reports/united-states/2018/fixed/ (US).

The physical infrastructure is what makes everything on top of it possible, and at the same time it is one of the most expensive pieces to build, upgrade, and maintain. There needs to be adequate returns on investment in the infrastructure, and that's hard to do in the unbundled model.

If you want high-quality infrastructure, you need to let the infrastructure builder capture a sufficient portion of the value created by that infrastructure. Consider trains. Trains create value for people using the train to get around, but also value for the real estate by the train station. If you only let the train company recover from the rider, you won't incentives that reflect the true value of investing in the train.

Look at Japan, where train service is exceptional. The train company gets to charge both sides. They charge fares to riders, but also are major land owners around train stations, and charge rent to the businesses who benefit from having train service near them. If you had your model in Japan, where train companies just own the tracks and get a modest fee for allowing people to use them, you would not see that kind of high-quality train service.

Re:Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Am... by AnthonyMouse on Saturday March 09, 2019 @11:54PM (#19350366)
> The physical infrastructure is what makes everything on top of it possible, and at the same time it is one of the most expensive pieces to build, upgrade, and maintain. There needs to be adequate returns on investment in the infrastructure, and that's hard to do in the unbundled model.

Why is it hard? You charge a price that reflects the cost of building the infrastructure. 200Mbps service can have a higher price than 50Mbps service, providing an incentive to build the capacity necessary to offer it. Which is still true even if the price for the faster service falls to approach the price for the slower service as upgrade cost is paid off. And then there is another upgrade and 1000Mbps service becomes the more expensive one compared to the now more affordable 200Mbps etc.

> Consider trains. Trains create value for people using the train to get around, but also value for the real estate by the train station. If you only let the train company recover from the rider, you won't incentives that reflect the true value of investing in the train.

You're essentially arguing against there being efficient Coasian bargaining. But the arguments against it are usually related to transaction costs, which don't seem to help you here. If Comcast can't charge anything to Netflix and as a result Netflix service is slightly less expensive to the user and internet service is slightly more expensive to the user, the user is not engaging in any new transactions and the net to the user is approximately zero. Moreover, then there is no transaction happening between Comcast and Netflix, which reduces the overall number of transactions that have to occur.

Re:Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Am... by tzs on Friday March 08, 2019 @08:49PM (#19343961)
I think local loop unbundling in the UK might only apply to telephone lines, not cable or fiber lines. If that's the case, then the speed comparison should be between UK and US DSL service, not UK and US broadband in general.
Re:Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Am... by sethhochberg on Friday March 08, 2019 @12:32PM (#19339778)
...so maybe it is time to finally admit that ISPs are natural monopolies, just like the water company or power company, and regulate them as a utility and ensure that local municipalities who want to provide these services for their residents have a legal path to do so?

The situation right now is so ridiculous that some states have laws outright barring municipal ISPs. If a breakup into regional private monopolies is the stepping stone to reducing ISP influence on government enough to get a more sane legal framework, I'll take it.

Re:Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Am... by jamie_ca on Friday March 08, 2019 @12:36PM (#19339848)
More effective than breaking them up would be imposing regulation. Force the incumbents to allow 3rd parties to use their infrastructure at a regulated wholesale rate, and then compete on service.

In Canada, there's a bunch of smaller cable resellers. For instance, Shaw does cable/phone/tv and also has some wifi infrastructure deals with various commercial businesses, and provides "Shaw Go Wifi" access to internet subscribers.

In my local area, we also have LightSpeed which resells access to Shaw for a cheaper rate, but you need to buy your own modem, and there's no wifi access around town. Trade-offs, and a slightly more healthy marketplace.