It does seem weird, and the fact that they’re closing stores they opened only months ago is a bad sign I think. The one in Dallas mentioned in the article was only opened in December, now it’s closed. That reeks of desperate cash-flow management at worst, wastefully bad spending at best.

Now maybe some younger folks will be happy ordering a car online and relying on a return policy, but that’s not going o be a population to support a company valued at what TSLA is. The Model 3 is more affordable than an S, but it’s still a big chunk of change for most people. Beyond that price range you’re selling a majority to older buyers who can afford it. Look at who is driving th average high end Mercedes, it’s usually someone who’s getting on in years. Are they really going to be Ok without even a test drive?

I’m in my 30’s, and no way in hell would I buy a car I’d never seen or driven, anymore than I’d buy a house without a walkthrough (at least). I think they’ve jus undercut their sales in a big way, and if it isn’t a desperation move, what is it?

I'm with you on this. I have rented cars to try them out, and advocate the practice. But that represents more friction than a test drive, and buying/returning represents more friction than renting.

This is Hacker News. We all are supposed to understand that friction reduces the market for a product that carries uncertainty in the mind of its market.

It's not a dichotomy, it's not like zero people will buy a Tesla without a local test drive, but it is a certainty that _fewer_ people will do so.

The question is, "how many fewer?"

So, I took delivery last week the day before the price changes. I went back the next day asking how I could work with them to find a solution since I was in the return window and now the product was $2.9k less expensive. That was a bummer, especially since FSD was 3k. I might as well push them because I was in the return window and the money could be used to purchase FSD. I was told by more than one service center experience employee that a full return was my only way to get a refund and then I should "just reorder at the new price."

Ok, so I returned. I was asked to reset the car, hand over my keys, and then told I was set to go. I had to ask, insistently, for proof that I had returned the car. They were just going to send me off with no letter, no email, nothing - just a literal IOU with no proof. I finally got a letter after some poking - it's one sentence that mentions my name and VIN but includes no financial details. I was then told the process will take six weeks.

So, while you can return, the process, in my opinion, is insane. Once you return, you're forced to wait for several weeks with no idea when, or if you will be refunded; even then you have no idea what they will actually send back to you. I am waiting for some undetermined period of time for ~$62,000 sent back to me ... I have no idea how they will actually send it to me.

Now, I really want to order another Model 3, but this whole process has been insane. I cannot see most people being comfortable with it. Ever.

I wouldn't buy without a test drive either, but having just bought a new car, I didn't test drive it at the dealership: I asked my neighbor around the corner if I could try his out, took it for a spin, and bought the car entirely online except to go to the dealership in person to sign some papers and pick it up...

Admittedly, you can throw a rock and bounce it off two or three Honda CR-Vs in my neighborhood.before it hits the ground, but I do know enough people with Teslas to try one if I wanted to.

You don't need a show room for a test drive. The "schedule a test drive" page is still up on their web page,

My understanding from recent news is that they are discontinuing all test drives in favor of a liberal quick return policy:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/tesla-takes-new-road-in-pushing...

I think some news articles mentioned that test drives are over? Maybe that was a mistake? I think that Tesla will remove the Schedule a Test Drive link soon? Maybe I'm wrong.

Maybe a younger generation who buys everything online and hasn't purchased a new vehicle before? I personally enjoy negotiating and driving prices lower, I'm also never in a rush to buy a vehicle. I can see the appeal of buying online though.

How big is the market for a pretty expensive first car? I’d guess that most luxury sedans are purchased by relatively older people.

On an unrelated note, does anyone know why this article fell off the front page so quickly? Did I do something wrong?

You know, I wonder if the upcoming IPOs (https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/07/style/uber-ipo-san-franci...) had any impact on this decision. It seems like there might actually be quite a few people potentially in the market for an expensive first car pretty soon.

Tesla has done a pretty good job positioning itself as the car to buy even if you've never really wanted to own one before, imo -- assuming you can afford one.

This was well discussed a week ago when the news first broke: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19275985

When you negotiate at a dealership the dealership is deciding how small of a margin they're willing to take. Removing the dealerships means removing this added margin that you're negotiating against.

> without even being able to try the product?

People can still try it, just not for free and from Tesla. I test drove a Model S P90 in 2012 from the store in Toronto and it changed my life. I can't afford the car, but it was an incredible experience for me. The test drive storeperson told me at the end of the (safe) trip that I could not drive back into the car basement parking lot. The last person they let test drive it into the parking lot totalled the car. So now for test drives they limit it to street-level. Anecdote and maybe irrelevant.

But if I want to test drive one today, I'd just go to Turo and rent one for like $50 and then not have to worry about someone over my shoulder telling me I'm gonna be a bad driver.

I'm not suggesting Turo or whatever is a replacement for a test drive! But it's also not the case that interested buyers have to buy without trying first.

Does saving $2,100 help? Oh and you can return it. And you can rent one on Turo if you don't want that hassle.

I don't know that it will work, but driving price down is often a very good move.

you can. 1000 mile refund policy.

Buying a car and returning it is not the same as going on a test drive. Pretending it is the same thing is just ridiculous and super out-of-touch with the target audience of the lower-cost cars.

Yes, this works with mattresses, but I don't know many people who'd be willing to do the buy and try thing with something as expensive as a car.

My biggest fear would be any potential hit to my credit. I don't know if getting a car loan and then getting the money refunded would impact my credit score at all, but I'm unsure enough to not want to try it. Credit and loans aren't something I want to take a chance on.

Oh yes. I am gut-level certain that the first-freeway-on-ramp experience of a Tesla test drive is a damn big push off the fence for a prospective buyer.

Does the 7 day return policy not alleviate those fears?

Or do you look at it from a perspective, I want a new car, have $40k to spend, let me test all the options, and being all-electric isn't a binary choice?

I think of it in 2 ways:

1) You have budget for a new car, shopping in the segment covered by Tesla offerings. You care not for its drive train and evaluating it purely on the car likeness. You go to different dealerships and educate yourself on different car features (as opposed to online) and test drive while you're there. Tesla not having retail presence hurts, for sure.

2) You do your research online, watching reviews on youtube, reading reviews in CR, etc. You are pretty certain you want car X, but want to test drive it to make sure. If that car is a Tesla, you have to buy it, knowing you can return it if something doesn't line up, getting your money back.

> Does the 7 day return policy not alleviate those fears?

Not at all, it's ridiculous to pretend that's a reasonable replacement. Cars are subjective things, luxury or higher end cars even more so. I've gotten pretty excited about the prospect of buying this or that only to drive it and realize I have zero interest.

In fact, I always thought I might want a Tesla until I actually rode in one and realized they feel profoundly cheap, the fit and finish is embarrassing, not even remotely in the ballpark of a standard German luxury sedan.

Maybe that'll change for the newer models. I'll likely never know though, instead I'd just go to a BMW or Audi or Mercedes dealer and be treated like a functional adult and a consumer looking to make a major purchase.

And once those guys get real, competitive electric options in stock, with functional dealerships and repair departments and so on, how exactly is Tesla planning on retaining market share?

I am currently waiting for a return refund for > 62k and have been told it will take over a month. Pretty sure most people would never consider that an acceptable return policy.

Of note, I am a big fan and want to order a new one, but ... seriously.