News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:W3C approves WebAuthn as the web standard for password-fr... by Canada on Monday March 04, 2019 @05:37PM (#19306344)
I don't want to let the password go. It gives me the freedom to rightfully access my service if I just know the secret, without any entanglent to some app, device, or other account.
Re:W3C approves WebAuthn as the web standard for password-fr... by Existenceblinks on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @07:47AM (#19310153)
> if I just know the secret

Sure if one is minimalism (using a few services) Once a storage needed (load of brain, password manager, paper etc.), the "just" goes away.

> without any entanglent to some app, device

Again If said storage needed, this is not advantage anymore.

Re:W3C approves WebAuthn as the web standard for password-fr... by rodorgas on Monday March 04, 2019 @05:48PM (#19306446)
Passwords will continue to exist. But it has a lot of flaws, so it's nice have alternatives.
Re:W3C approves WebAuthn as the web standard for password-fr... by ehsankia on Monday March 04, 2019 @06:20PM (#19306660)
Is there a solution for the fact that all of your accounts will be secured by the same "source"? Isn't this almost close to using the same password on every site? I realize a physical secret is better than a password, but if someone gets their hand on your little FIDO device, do they instantly get access to all your accounts?
Re:W3C approves WebAuthn as the web standard for password-fr... by AgentME on Monday March 04, 2019 @06:28PM (#19306706)
The big problem with using the same password on multiple sites is that if any of the sites record your password (because of maliciousness or incompetence), they can re-use your password to log in as you on any other site.

Using a security token is more like a password manager with random passwords everywhere than that (the attacker needs to get access to your password manager to get access to your accounts; it's not enough for someone to hack a single site you use), but more secure because it's generally not copyable and the attacker needs physical access to use it. (A virus on your computer can't clone your security token, even if it's plugged in.)

Re:W3C approves WebAuthn as the web standard for password-fr... by ehsankia on Monday March 04, 2019 @06:30PM (#19306731)
That's fair. Although, for my password manager, you need both password and 2FA to access it, whereas a FIDO key would just require stealing the physical key.

Does there exist FIDO key (other than phones) that require a password to "enable"? For example, when it's plugged into a new device, the key locks until you input some master password?

Re:W3C approves WebAuthn as the web standard for password-fr... by rkeene2 on Monday March 04, 2019 @08:28PM (#19307377)
Most smartcards require you to authenticate to them before they will perform operations using their private cryptographic keys. I'm adding WebAuthn support to my smartcard middleware [0].

[0] https://cackey.rkeene.org/

Re:W3C approves WebAuthn as the web standard for password-fr... by jontro on Monday March 04, 2019 @07:18PM (#19307020)
The Ledger Nano S requires you to enter a pin code at least
Re:W3C approves WebAuthn as the web standard for password-fr... by forgotmypw7 on Monday March 04, 2019 @11:30PM (#19308120)
Who said anything about using the same password on different sites?
Re:W3C approves WebAuthn as the web standard for password-fr... by MaulingMonkey on Monday March 04, 2019 @11:42PM (#19308167)
"Isn't this almost close to using the same password on every site?" is in the post AgentME is replying to.
Re:W3C approves WebAuthn as the web standard for password-fr... by MaulingMonkey on Monday March 04, 2019 @11:50PM (#19308191)
> Is there a solution for the fact that all of your accounts will be secured by the same "source"?

2FA is still an option (e.g. 1 thing that you have + 1 thing that you know), with the hardware token representing a more secure alternative to phone SMS messages.

> Isn't this almost close to using the same password on every site?

To get the a shared password, you have to hack one of hundreds of different services that password is used on, or phish the user, and penetration often goes undetected for years.

To get the physical secret, you have to rob the user, who will notice they've been robbed the next time they attempt to login. Additionally, trying to login to a phishing website won't automatically auth them with the real website - I can't do secure key exchange algorithms in my head, but a hardware device can.

Re:W3C approves WebAuthn as the web standard for password-fr... by dontbenebby on Monday March 04, 2019 @07:49PM (#19307183)
I've avoided getting a Yubikey because there's not an easy way to use it on my iPhone, sticking with TOTP. But that's a bit of an edge case. (iPhones lack NFC chips)
Re:W3C approves WebAuthn as the web standard for password-fr... by ak217 on Monday March 04, 2019 @08:25PM (#19307354)
I agree it's annoying. They're working on it, but they should have really enabled it sooner. There's no technical reason, iPhone has the necessary NFC hardware. https://www.wired.com/story/yubikey-lightning-ios-authentica...
Re:W3C approves WebAuthn as the web standard for password-fr... by velosol on Monday March 04, 2019 @09:13PM (#19307562)
Their main page for mobile heavily implies they are already there with iPhone/NFC.

https://www.yubico.com/products/yubikey-for-mobile/

Re:W3C approves WebAuthn as the web standard for password-fr... by ak217 on Monday March 04, 2019 @09:33PM (#19307641)
Actually, you're right - that capability has apparently been available since last year: https://www.yubico.com/2018/05/yubikey-comes-to-iphone-with-.... The link I cited is for lightning-connected Yubikey hardware, which is supposed to come out this year.
Re:W3C approves WebAuthn as the web standard for password-fr... by dontbenebby on Monday March 04, 2019 @08:40PM (#19307415)
Interesting link, thanks!

For the time being, passphrases + TOTP 2F are sufficient, but I will look forward to being able to use a security key instead.

Re:W3C approves WebAuthn as the web standard for password-fr... by ak217 on Monday March 04, 2019 @09:26PM (#19307613)
U2F is fundamentally quite a bit more secure than TOTP - you probably already know this, but just to clarify for those reading.
Re:W3C approves WebAuthn as the web standard for password-fr... by dontbenebby on Monday March 04, 2019 @10:11PM (#19307796)
>U2F is fundamentally quite a bit more secure than TOTP - you probably already know this, but just to clarify for those reading.

Yes, IIRC it's impossible (or nearly so) to phish U2F.

Re:W3C approves WebAuthn as the web standard for password-fr... by Rafert on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @09:17AM (#19310614)
Feitian makes devices with Bluetooth support: https://www.ftsafe.com/Products/FIDO/Multi
Re:W3C approves WebAuthn as the web standard for password-fr... by dboreham on Monday March 04, 2019 @11:11PM (#19308042)
fwiw, in case readers are curious, the NFC Yubikeys work fine on popular NFC-capable Android devices such as my GNote9.
Re:W3C approves WebAuthn as the web standard for password-fr... by zaarn on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @02:32AM (#19308807)
In theory, password authentication can continue to exist by deriving a private-key in the browser from a password and using that to complete webauthn.