News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Google Moves to Address Wage Equity, and Finds It’s Under... by leereeves on Monday March 04, 2019 @05:34PM (#19306316)
Capable isn't the same thing as interested. I know many smart people who have no interest in programming (and wonder why I enjoy it). As The Atlantic said:

> Then again, it could just be that, feeling financially secure and on equal footing with men, some women will always choose to follow their passions, rather than whatever labor economists recommend. And those passions don’t always lie within science [or technology].

Re:Google Moves to Address Wage Equity, and Finds It’s Under... by stcredzero on Monday March 04, 2019 @05:48PM (#19306443)
I know many smart people who have no interest in programming (and wonder why I enjoy it)

I had an ex-girlfriend who could code, but had no interest in doing that for a job. I'm currently married to a woman with 3 degrees, one of which is a PhD, and she also can code, but says she feels sorry for me, because it's my job.

Re:Google Moves to Address Wage Equity, and Finds It’s Under... by chc on Monday March 04, 2019 @05:35PM (#19306327)
It is when we're talking about outcomes within a field. Either you think women deserve to be paid less or not — there isn't really a third possibility there. If they do deserve worse outcomes, then either they suck innately or they suck because they're not interested, but either way you're saying they suck.
Re:Google Moves to Address Wage Equity, and Finds It’s Under... by leereeves on Monday March 04, 2019 @05:39PM (#19306365)
Don't try to put words in my mouth with that false dichotomy.

If someone isn't interested in programming, they don't "suck" at it. They just don't do it.

Re:Google Moves to Address Wage Equity, and Finds It’s Under... by chc on Monday March 04, 2019 @05:41PM (#19306381)
I'm talking about outcomes for female programmers here. You're saying that female programmers don't program, and therefore they deserve to be paid less than male programmers, who presumably do program? Or what? Who are these female programmers who don't program that you're apparently so interested in talking about?
Re:Google Moves to Address Wage Equity, and Finds It’s Under... by haberman on Monday March 04, 2019 @05:54PM (#19306494)
Women who achieve the same things as men deserve the same compensation. I don't think anyone on this thread disagrees with that.

This article is about a comprehensive review of salaries at Google that concluded that overall, women who achieved the same job levels as men were being paid more.

The opportunity vs. outcome question is applied to the question of representation. How many women should we expect to see at Google, across job levels, if the process for selecting and promoting people is fair?

Re:Google Moves to Address Wage Equity, and Finds It’s Under... by stcredzero on Monday March 04, 2019 @05:52PM (#19306482)
You're saying that female programmers don't program, and therefore they deserve to be paid less

This is weird. That's not how I read what leereeves wrote at all. Yet you repeatedly insist that's what he's saying. Are you perhaps projecting an opinion onto leereeves? Preferences can very much influence the outcomes of a training pipeline for a field. (I say this as someone who taught a class attended by Chic Tech students.) That's just common sense.

Re:Google Moves to Address Wage Equity, and Finds It’s Under... by chc on Monday March 04, 2019 @05:57PM (#19306508)
I'm trying to get leereeves to actually explain what he means. What sort of difference do people think exists between men and women that makes them deserve to, for example, be paid less for the same work (i.e. worse outcome) without being worse at the job?
Re:Google Moves to Address Wage Equity, and Finds It’s Under... by leereeves on Monday March 04, 2019 @06:06PM (#19306565)
You're asking me to explain something that may not even be true. According to the article, your scenario is not reality:

> When Google conducted a study recently to determine whether the company was underpaying women and members of minority groups, it found, to the surprise of just about everyone, that men were paid less money than women for doing similar work.

men were paid less money than women for doing similar work.

Re:Google Moves to Address Wage Equity, and Finds It’s Under... by manfredo on Monday March 04, 2019 @07:13PM (#19306993)
My room mate works fewer hours than me and doesn't have oncall rotations. He makes less money accordingly.

Are you willing to walk up to his face and tell him that he "sucks" because he doesn't work as hard and doesn't have the same TC as I do?

To be frank, your posts are pretty denigrating to people who choose to have better work life balance. Not everyone sees their self worth in terms of dollars.