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Re:The New 30-Something by 40acres on Monday March 04, 2019 @03:10PM (#19304867)
I was born in NYC to Haitian immigrants, if you didn't know Haiti is the poorest country in the Western hemisphere. I grew up in a neighborhood with a lot of West Indian first generation children, a common theme for us was that we were "tougher" than the white kids who grew up in NYC because they lived easy lives. It was typical short sighted thinking that young kids do.

I wonder what that kid would say now after reading this article. A lot of the people I grew up with went to crappy colleges. I did too, and we were too broke to even think about tuition so PELL grants funded my education. College Textbooks? You mean PDFs from The Pirate Bay.

I made it out and got a nice job in tech, but like many of my peers it is I who support my parents. I pay their health insurance, I lend them money for groceries, and I'm financing my dad's chemotherapy. Do you know how hard it is to save up for a house (on the west coast !!) knowing you'll never get a windfall from Mom and Dad? When in fact they are a liability budget wise?

I wish more articles were written about this side of the coin, it is my experience that many young people, especially minorities, are shouldering the burden of "elder care" earlier than they ever thought they would.

Re:The New 30-Something by loganfrederick on Monday March 04, 2019 @05:39PM (#19306357)
I strongly agree with this and relate as someone who makes a very good living as a computer programmer but has received nearly no financial assistance from parents (a few thousands dollars for college tuition but not all of it covered) who do not have much in liquid assets.

The parent comment highlights is an important divide that's exacerbating the wealth gap in the USA: The difference between millennials whose Gen X parents are a financial liability versus a financial advantage.

The Gen X'ers are either passing onto their kids either hundreds of thousands in investment and savings income, or tens of thousands in medical and elderly care liabilities. Few in my "millennial" generation are talking about it, but as their parents get older, the contrast is getting more noticeable among friends who have to deal with very different parental situations. It's dangerously perpetuating "wealth gaps" across generations. I fear it will not end well for society when more debt-laden adults see others who are coasting off of what their parents' gave them.

Re:The New 30-Something by 40acres on Monday March 04, 2019 @08:28PM (#19307370)
Yes, this is income inequality, generational wealth, and the racial wealth gap all rolled into one.

The worst thing about it is that I've completely reoriented my free time to prepare for interviews so that I can double my salary -- that will hopefully give me enough breathing room to accelerate my savings to buy a home and pass on wealth to my children. The game is the game...

Re:The New 30-Something by adventured on Monday March 04, 2019 @08:54PM (#19307465)
> this is income inequality, generational wealth, and the racial wealth gap all rolled into one.

To put that disparity into specific financial terms.

According to the Federal Reserve, the average white US household crossed the $1 million net worth line sometime in the past two years with the climb by the stock market and property values. Emphasis that that is the average, the median is closer to $190k-$210k, which is comparable to some of the wealthiest median household wealth nations such as Belgium, Australia and Switzerland.

The median white household wealth figure is only surpassed by the median asian household figure (asian households still trail white households on the average figure; due to a difference in duration of time to accumulate larger generational wealth).

The average black US household has an average net worth of about $150k for 2018, and a median of about ~$20,000. The Fed's figure is generally that black US households have less than 15% the wealth of white and asian households.

The average hispanic US household has an average net worth of about $200k for 2018, and a median of about ~$22,000.

Of note, as you'd expect there's an enormous difference in all households when it comes to education and wealth attainment. The average white household net wealth figure hits about $2 million where the lead earner has a bachelor's degree or higher; without that education level, the average wealth figure for white households is about 20% that (roughly $400k). In black households, a stark example of the importance of education attainment is that the median wealth figure increases by seven fold in households where the prime earner/s have a bachelor's degree or higher. In hispanic households with a bachelor's degree or higher, the average household wealth figure is around $650k (a great figure for most any wealthy nation). That hispanic demographic saw about a 60% (!) increase in their net worth between 2013 and 2019. Every way you look at the education vs wealth figures it puts an emphasis on the huge gap in wealth between households with more education vs less.

Besides the giant budget deficit problem, I don't see any scenario where taxes (on capital gains, income and estates) on the top ~10% don't go up a lot over the next 10-15 years or so. The largest lever the government is perceived to have to go after wealth disparity is aggressive wealth redistribution through taxes.

You of course also see this gap in other nations like France and the UK (which have some of the highest median household wealth levels), where they have very poor minorities with high unemployment rates and little personal or household wealth.

Social cohesiveness obviously falters in situations where you have such wealth disparities over time. That's particularly true if you have the triple hit of little economic growth, aging demographics and ever rising social demands (an increasingly common scenario in developed nations today).

Re:The New 30-Something by marktangotango on Monday March 04, 2019 @08:16PM (#19307305)
I personally think this reality will make social democrats mainstream in no time (speaking of US). Especially with people like AOC stating the position so eloquently.
Re:The New 30-Something by perfmode on Monday March 04, 2019 @08:34PM (#19307389)
Indeed. Either they will take over the Democratic Party or they’ll form a third and leave the old one to rot.

Since there are probably thousands of DB tables with dem and republican hardcoded, my money is on take over.

Re:The New 30-Something by ethbro on Monday March 04, 2019 @08:35PM (#19307394)
> Especially with people like AOC stating the position so eloquently.

You mean the person who was 1 at the time Bernie Sanders, having already been involved in the 60s Civil Rights movement and mayor of Burlington for 3 terms, was first elected to the US Congress?

Re:The New 30-Something by david-cako on Monday March 04, 2019 @03:45PM (#19305230)
>I made it out and got a nice job in tech, but like many of my peers it is I who support my parents. I pay their health insurance, I lend them money for groceries, and I'm financing my dad's chemotherapy. Do you know how hard it is to save up for a house (on the west coast !!) knowing you'll never get a windfall from Mom and Dad? When in fact they are a liability budget wise?

I can only imagine how difficult that is. This is an interesting distinction between western and eastern culture too. I wonder if the obligation to take care of your parents is less pronounced in eastern households that are wealthier.

Re:The New 30-Something by godot on Monday March 04, 2019 @04:32PM (#19305776)
It's the opposite. The obligation to take care of your parents is definitely more pronounced in eastern households. See filial piety [1]. I'm Chinese and grew up in both Asia and the US. First of all, wealthy Chinese is a pretty small minority, so most working 20-somethings and 30-somethings are paying a portion of their paychecks to parents to support them. For those lucky enough to come from wealthy families, most are still expected to care for them in other non-monetary ways. For example in America many Chinese immigrants of the older generation can't drive; taking time off your work and taking your parents to their doctor's appointments is often a responsibility you have. (which of course means you can't live far away from them; there's going to be more and more work caring for them as they grow older.)

Like GP, I also grew up in a lower income family and made it out well in tech. My only advantage is that I'm older and started working 15 years ago, which lead to being able to afford to buy a house during the lowest years of the housing market (2010-12) so I have a really low mortgage in crazy bay area. I don't know how anyone in the bay would be able to save up for a house if they have to support their parents in addition to paying their own rent.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filial_piety

Re:The New 30-Something by xvedejas on Monday March 04, 2019 @05:00PM (#19306023)
The question was about wealthier eastern households, not western versus eastern. I too wonder about the differences between richer and poorer eastern households.
Re:The New 30-Something by mntmoss on Monday March 04, 2019 @07:23PM (#19307052)
What comes to mind is the stories about "parachute kids" with (relatively) wealthy parents that sent the kid abroad, ostensibly for study. They end up in an extreme form of latchkey existence - still Eastern in intent, but living largely alone and with few obligations, they tend to be adrift at a much earlier stage of life, leading to occasional news stories about crimes that earn prison time, or of "little emperors and empresses" that have been spoiled and have difficulty adjusting to interaction with the rest of the world.

The film "Better Luck Tomorrow" explored this - not specifically the parachute kid status, but the trouble that overprivileged Asian teens get into. It's fictionalized but also based on some real events.

Re:The New 30-Something by chaostheory on Monday March 04, 2019 @05:44PM (#19306413)
> I wonder if the obligation to take care of your parents is less pronounced in eastern households that are wealthier.

For East Asian families, it's still there but it is non-existent from a financial perspective. It's no different from the article even though it describes the US. I've personally seen several scenarios of approx 30 individual families:

1. Kids were either extremely spoiled so they ended up with a poor work ethic, were incompetent, or both. They are not millennials. Parents ended up supporting them for the rest of their lives. Their wealth eventually consumed in one generation with their businesses either being sold or destroyed. In all these cases, the parents were content with grandchildren.

2. Kids were high achievers. Stereotypical scenario of getting into the Ivys or international equivalent, with the right finance, law, or engineering jobs right after with continued progression. Parents still gave a lot of financial gifts even though they weren't needed.

The only real expectation when the parents are financially well off is that their children still take care of them when old age becomes an issue i.e. no nursing home. parents will live with one of their children until they die

Re:The New 30-Something by jmathai on Monday March 04, 2019 @04:27PM (#19305718)
I don't believe so. There are 2 cultural differences I've noticed as a son to immigrant parents in the US.

1) My parents primary goal was to make life better for their kids. It was in a nutshell why they immigrated in the first place - not to improve their own lives. 2) It's the responsibility of the kids to care for their parents. The idea of nursing homes is so foreign and repulsive to my parents (and myself for that matter).

This is a generalization but, from my experience, that's baked into eastern culture across classes.

Re:The New 30-Something by nikhizzle on Monday March 04, 2019 @04:27PM (#19305712)
So I disagree about the distinction, I have many Indian and Chinese friends who have no obligation to take care of their parents (admittedly from middle class backgrounds). And then I have two good friends who are American of long ago European descent who definitely help their parents out with the bills extensively.

To answer your question though, I've seen it as common in both eastern and western families of means to not be expected to take care of your parents as much.

Re:The New 30-Something by jmathai on Monday March 04, 2019 @04:28PM (#19305730)
Heh, my reply is essentially the opposite of yours.
Re:The New 30-Something by wardbradt on Monday March 04, 2019 @10:46PM (#19307931)
Your comment at the end made me think of a story I read a while back.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ANormalDayInRussia/comments/9sbeqy/...

While the story doesn't mention an "obligation" of the elder generation's children, I think it brings out a very interesting point. Unlike the US/ Western Europe, in Russia, and likely other previously-Soviet countries, there isn't a noticeable divide between those with rich parents and those without. No one has rich parents.

Re:The New 30-Something by krsdcbl on Monday March 04, 2019 @06:17PM (#19306648)
Strongly agree with this. I live in Europe, my tuition was free, and the paradigms are hugely different to the US, with things like: free health care, and such.

And still, the article reads to me like "upper middle class kids have it so hard today because they can't get as rich as their parents too easily".

The economic shift is real, but the wealth of our MIDDLE CLASS parent generation was an oddity in itself, not comparable to the reality of most people now OR then.

Re:The New 30-Something by weberc2 on Monday March 04, 2019 @07:56PM (#19307208)
In addition to your observation, the tone of this article suggests that young people have some right to live in Manhattan or to own a $400K condo by the beach in San Diego. I'm a millenial, and I'm not aware of such an attitude among my parent's generation. It seems perhaps my generation has greater expectations than our parents' while also having worse economic circumstances. Even still, $100K household income is an affordable middleclass lifestyle outside of the downtown area of major metros.
Re:The New 30-Something by weberc2 on Monday March 04, 2019 @05:59PM (#19306527)
> Do you know how hard it is to save up for a house (on the west coast !!) knowing you'll never get a windfall from Mom and Dad?

Pardon the naive question, but what sort of windfall from Mom and Dad to people expect when saving up for a house? Is it common on the coasts for parents to help their children buy a house? I've never thought to plan for help from my parents for anything (I'll be happy if they can cover their own care).

Re:The New 30-Something by stevenwoo on Monday March 04, 2019 @06:06PM (#19306568)
I didn't have any expectations but from anecdotal sampling of homebuyers over the past 20 years in the Bay Area there are lots of parents helping with the down payment, maybe sampling bias but it seem like it's mentioned in most local news articles about the home buying market.
Re:The New 30-Something by weberc2 on Monday March 04, 2019 @06:32PM (#19306751)
Didn't mean to imply a doubt; I just hadn't heard of this before. In my part of the midwest, you were lucky if your parents could help out with college.
Re:The New 30-Something by sokoloff on Monday March 04, 2019 @08:19PM (#19307322)
My parents gave each of us kids $10K to help us buy our first house. That’s not a ton, but it’s way better than nothing and that was after helping us graduate from respected colleges with manageable student loan debt and giving us (very) low five-figure gifts to help retire the student loans after graduation.
Re:The New 30-Something by weberc2 on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @01:45PM (#19312993)
That’s a ton for lots of families. My family couldn’t afford to help with my education, retirement, or home ownership. Even still, I have more expendable income than I ever dreamt, and I can even give a decent amount away. This is why this article seems really out-of-touch to me—it you’re making six figures and struggling I think you just need to discipline and a budget. Who really needs a $400K house on a San Diego beach? Fantastic that her parents helped her out, but that’s a really out-of-touch definition of “struggling”.
Re:The New 30-Something by kokokokoko on Monday March 04, 2019 @06:05PM (#19306556)
It is common for first time home buyers to get a significant portion(if not all) of their first deposit for their mortgage(often 20%) from either family assistance or inheritance. This is especially common in the more expensive housing markets in the US.
Re:The New 30-Something by elliotec on Monday March 04, 2019 @11:45PM (#19308178)
Common? 20%? You are in a rich kid bubble my friend
Re:The New 30-Something by dan-robertson on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @04:24AM (#19309291)
I’m not convinced this is biased. The GP says it’s common (in whatever market they are in) for house buyers to get help with a down payment (up to 20%) from parents, not that it is common for people to be offered that help from their parents. One could suppose that those people who don’t get help are less likely to be homebuyers and so aren’t included in GP’s anecdote.
Re:The New 30-Something by throwaway-1283 on Monday March 04, 2019 @06:28PM (#19306705)
Is that true? The last article I read about millennial homebuyers is that the reason outstanding mortgage balances are increasing is because more millennials are putting down less than 20% because they couldn't otherwise afford to.
Re:The New 30-Something by bradlys on Monday March 04, 2019 @07:28PM (#19307086)
From anecdotal data, yes - very true. I think you're seeing a wider spread than before. People who are trying to get homes with less % down than before and people who are using their parents' money. An article I read (that used anecdotal data from real estate agents) was suggesting that around 35% of new home buyers in SF Bay are getting partial to full down payment from parents.

Anyone in my social circle who bought their first home (anywhere on the west coast) and is in their 20's or 30's, they didn't do it by themselves. Their parents chipped in quite a bit.

Re:The New 30-Something by astura on Monday March 04, 2019 @11:17PM (#19308067)
In a homeowner and the vast majority of my peers are too. I know -ZERO- people who had this sort of financial assistance for a down payment. We all saved up our own money.

I live on the east coast though.

Re:The New 30-Something by weberc2 on Monday March 04, 2019 @06:30PM (#19306728)
Well shit. I'll be right back; I have to call my parents.
Re:The New 30-Something by bronxbomber92 on Monday March 04, 2019 @08:48PM (#19307442)
Agreed. I'm in a similar situation (working in tech in the bay area and supporting my mom by covering her financial needs). I have two colleagues also in similar situations. It makes me wonder how many others in my peer group are faced with these same challenges..
Re:The New 30-Something by Nydhal on Monday March 04, 2019 @07:00PM (#19306917)
Just a reminded that the other side of the coin is not 2nd generation immigrants only but also 1st generation who might be even more burdened.