Why not? Just publish who makes how much money. That’s it.

IMO, companies should not be allowed to keep salaries private but I do think employees should be able to keep their own salaries private. I don't want coworkers or the public to know my income for all sorts of reasons. It's just not anyone else's business.

This whole notion that the only way for someone who thinks they aren't paid enough to get a raise is to know everyone else's salary and then use that as leverage is absurd. If you feel like you aren't paid enough ask for a raise and explain why you feel that way. If you're turned down look for a different job that values you at a level you're comfortable with. If you still can't make the amount you desire maybe then it is time to check your own assumptions and see what you can do to provide more value so that you can get it in return.

It's absolutely the business of everyone who works for that company.

People are trading their time based on certain assumptions, including the viability of the company; seeing the company's books is a vital way to do that.

"Trust me" is a shitty position for companies to put workers in, and yet we see again and again how they go under and leave people (individuals, families, etc) in the lurch.

Secrecy never benefits the person in the weaker position.

Compare two developers. One just codes and the other not only knows how to code but knows how to debug (native, runtimes, etc.). So, then you publish developer 1's pay salary and developer 2's pay salary.

Now, developer 1 has a rage-boner because developer 2 is being paid more but there's the reason of his/her desirable skills being utilised in the role. Yet, developer 1 doesn't see this qualifiable reason and just sees this as being unfair/unequal.

Pay transparency would only exacerbate the current problems around pay, not help alleviate them.

There are plenty of places with pay transparency and they work just fine. The information imbalance is only to the benefit of the employer.

>There are plenty of places with pay transparency and they work just fine. The information imbalance is only to the benefit of the employer.

Citations?

For what? For pay transparency look at Congress staffers, lot of state employees, a lot of CEOs, the military or some tech companies. For the second point I think it's pretty well known that markets can only properly function if all participants have the relevant information.

> markets can only properly function if all participants have the relevant information.

That's the reason why it's criminal for employers to punish employees for discussing compensation with each other and why employers try their hardest to prevent that from happening.

I posit that in a lot of (most) companies profit is born wholly by the underpaid employees.

>For the second point I think it's pretty well known that markets can only properly function if all participants have the relevant information.

So the markets have been improperly functioning, this entire time, because they didn't have the relevant information...?

Yes, the salary market is not functioning properly because one side has vastly more information than the other side.

Professional sports is one that is brought up frequently. Athletes seem to be fine with being paid different amounts, and they too must work as a team to succeed.

Public servants. Sweden. Buffer.

>Public servants

All public servants or just those paid by your statea and/or federal governments? Could you find out how much someone made at the NSA, for example?

>Sweden.

Tax returns are not the same as pay transparency. In premise, yes, in practice, no, because a tax return is based on taxable income only. So, let's say I have tax credits for having three kids. My taxable income would be vastly different from yours, if you have no kids.

>Buffer

Overflow...?

....who do you think pays NSA employees? https://work.chron.com/nsa-pay-scale-16399.html

>Sweden.

You are conflating tax returns and taxable income. A tax return shows the salary AND the tax credits. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-panama-tax-nordics-idUSKC...

>Buffer

https://www.google.com/search?q=buffer+pay+transparency

not to mention the fact that there may be a junior developer 1a at a lower tier that can do everything developer 2 can do (and better) that is getting paid massively less...

there are plenty of situations where that better dev gets paid less. salary transparency will address that

>there are plenty of situations where that better dev gets paid less. salary transparency will address that

Plenty of situations? Where? Documented somewhere, I should hope, yeah?

Is that better dev from a subjective or an objective perspective?

The reason that I ask is because one dev can think that they're better than another and believe that they should be paid more but that could very well be the fault of fevered ego and not, necessarily, a reflection of reality, yeah?

Also, salary transparency wouldn't actually address anything. It would be a tool to address the salary issue with management and management (plus, HR) would address it, yeah?

"Also, salary transparency wouldn't actually address anything. It would be a tool to address the salary issue with management and management (plus, HR) would address it, yeah?"

The first step to address issues is to gather relevant data so an informed decision can be made. right now we have only very incomplete data.

How can it be a step and also address it? You're creating a dichotomy that you're refusing to resolve here...

If all salaries are transparent, you get even more heavy incentives for wage-stagnation.

>Why not? Just publish who makes how much money. That’s it.

Okay. Let's make a thought experiment.

  Company A. Senior Java Developer. $100K.
  Company B. Senior Java Developer. $120K.

Question: is the Java developer in Company A underpaid?

What’s the point of this thought experiment?

How can you understand fairness of pay from that information?

You can’t. It depends on the situation. I am sure the people working there can put it better into context.

I still don’t understand the thought experiment. How about: Car A costs $30000, Car B costs $50000. Which is the better value? Makes as little sense.

Exactly. That's the point. Just pricing information (be it salary or car prices) makes little sense.

Market transparency that you mentioned earlier makes sense only for standardized goods/services. Software jobs are not standardized and many people don't want their colleagues to know how much their earn.

And I'll point out that state governments often do this, and it seems to work fine for them.

I'm not sure we have the same definition of "fine" - government workers are usually not a shining light when it comes to motivation, productivity, etc.