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Re:Cheap renewables won’t stop global warming (2018) by solotronics on Friday March 01, 2019 @04:02AM (#19278951)
This is a good summary but since 1996 immigrants are generally eligible for the same government subsidies as citizens. https://www.nilc.org/issues/economic-support/overview-immeli...

"The average household headed by an immigrant (legal or illegal) costs taxpayers $6,234 in federal welfare benefits, which is 41 percent higher than the $4,431 received by the average native household. The average immigrant household consumes 33 percent more cash welfare, 57 percent more food assistance, and 44 percent more Medicaid dollars than the average native household. Housing costs are about the same for both groups." https://cis.org/Report/Cost-Welfare-Use-Immigrant-and-Native...

Re:Cheap renewables won’t stop global warming (2018) by AtlasLion on Friday March 01, 2019 @04:15AM (#19278990)
That does not take into account that said immigrant had their education paid for by another country and starts paying taxes on day one. Tax payers have to prep local population for 20 plus years before they start contributing.
Re:Cheap renewables won’t stop global warming (2018) by cglace on Friday March 01, 2019 @07:25AM (#19279885)
Do you think they are paying more in taxes than recieving?

Having worked in the landscaping industry I know that paying under the table is not uncommon for immigrants.

Re:Cheap renewables won’t stop global warming (2018) by pjc50 on Friday March 01, 2019 @06:31AM (#19279616)
The first link plainly states "After these laws’ enactment, most lawfully residing immigrants were barred from receiving assistance under the major federal benefits programs for five years or longer."?

Is this really "subsidising immigration?" I mean, immigrants have costs too, and most of the few remaining things they are eligible for are emergency assistance of one sort or another. What this argument turns into in practice is "people who have resided in the first world for years as workers who hit economic trouble should starve or be deported".

Hardly anyone comes to the first world to live off public assistance. It's either a matter of survival/safety or a search for opportunity.

Re:Cheap renewables won’t stop global warming (2018) by johnisgood on Friday March 01, 2019 @06:45AM (#19279684)
> Hardly anyone comes to the first world to live off public assistance. It's either a matter of survival/safety or a search for opportunity.

This is objectively wrong though. If they were to use the actual law for refugees, they have to seek asylum in the first country they arrive in, yet they all travel onwards to the EU, to the 4th or so European country, and they do get on welfare and live off public assistance.

If they were seeking safety, they would stay in the first country, Turkey. But obviously, Turkey does not have generous free packages, so they - as you said -, search for opportunity to receive free stuff, i.e. move to far away countries where they would be eligible for welfare (public assistance).

https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/non-citizens-u...

https://cis.org/Report/63-NonCitizen-Households-Access-Welfa...

63% non-citizen households are on welfare. This is not hardly anyone.

Note: I realize that the statistics above are concerned with the US and not the EU, but it refutes the quoted statement.

---

This does not necessarily apply to immigrants from other European countries migrating to the UK, for example. They are the ones searching for opportunities alone[1], and not safety. There are many definitions of safety, and in this case I was referring to safety in terms of fleeing from war zones, and as far as I am concerned, those European countries these people (from this example) are migrating from are not a war zone.

http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-7...

[1] Of course one could migrate to another country simply because they offer more free stuff. I do not deny that.

On the other hand, in Germany:

> In April 2018 more than half, at 55%, of the recipients of unemployment benefits had a migration background. According to the Federal Employment Agency (German: Bundesagentur für Arbeit) this was due to the migrants lacking either employable skills or knowledge of the language.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Germany

http://www.dnn.de/Nachrichten/Politik/Jeder-zweite-Hartz-IV-...

Note that they may take into account people from other European countries, too, i.e. not refugees.

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> I mean, immigrants have costs too

Do immigrants who work have a cost? I could migrate to the US from a non-warzone and I believe it would not cost the US anything, but would make money off of me.

Re:Cheap renewables won’t stop global warming (2018) by pjc50 on Friday March 01, 2019 @06:53AM (#19279708)
Safety and opportunity, perhaps? I'm not entirely sure that Turkey will count as "safe" in the medium term either, especially not for non-Muslim refugees. There are several million Syrians there already.

> receive free stuff

I do with people who said things like this had to live on the actual level of public assistance for a month or so. It's really not a lot. £37.75 a week in the UK, just under £2k a year, not including housing.

Re:Cheap renewables won’t stop global warming (2018) by johnisgood on Friday March 01, 2019 @07:05AM (#19279760)
Yeah, I edited my first post. There are many ways to define safety and I really do not wish us to talk over each other so these definitions need to be laid out before we proceed into a preferably non-heated argument. :)

I agree that Turkey does not necessarily count or be perceived as safe to non-Muslim refugees. I am not sure of the percentage of such refugees either. Regarding safety, I can only assume that it is safer living in Turkey than living in an actual war zone, even if you are a non-Muslim. So since Turkey is not a war zone, if you are looking for a way out of a war zone, for safety, then you will settle down in the nearest safe place, unless of course safety is not the only criteria.

I would also like to say that Syria is safe outside of certain areas thanks to the Syrian army and Russia liberating it from the "moderate" rebels (terrorists). If I am wrong, do not hesitate to correct me.

Asylum is to protect someone from immediate harm, they do that by going to the nearest safe place, otherwise, if they want to pick and choose, unfortunately they need to apply for a visa like everyone else and likely would not be entitled to public assistance (free stuff) down that route, so it is not attractive to them. Especially considering the migrant-intent visas or dual intent visas have a high threshold for skills which they likely would not meet and would have to rely on the other visas that prohibit seeking permanent residency, so instead these people from non-war zones just go to whatever country they want, burn their fingertips, and apply for asylum in the place that gives them the most free stuff. EU knows this, hence why they are now paying said economic migrants a way back home where it was safe in the first place.

People are fleeing safe countries, to very specific countries based on their high benefits payout. Such as: being in some areas of Syria is safe, travelling to Turkey, safe, travelling all the way up the EU area to France where they were safe at all points, endangering everybody on a raft to illegally enter the UK, etc. There is no other reason than welfare. If they had family in that country, they can apply for a visa on that.

We also have to note that "immigrants" and "refugees" are not exactly the same thing, but seemingly have used it interchangeably. :/

Re:Cheap renewables won’t stop global warming (2018) by sgift on Friday March 01, 2019 @07:18AM (#19279840)
> The Center for Immigration Studies (CIS) is a non-profit organization and think tank[3] "that favors far lower immigration numbers and produces research to further those views."[4]

Looks like the report in your second link is more propaganda than science.

Re:Cheap renewables won’t stop global warming (2018) by johnisgood on Friday March 01, 2019 @07:29AM (#19279923)
Do you have any evidence to back up that statement?

In any case, I do not think that UK records the information in terms of non-UK and UK citizenship (or from European countries vs non-European countries), but if you can find it, please let me know.