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Re:Bill Gates: End teacher bonuses based on master's degrees... by jdietrich on Saturday November 20, 2010 @08:53PM (#1925956)
Why haven't the unions been broken? Nobody would tolerate unions that protected incompetent lawyers or doctors. Union-breaking is practically a science these days, it's neither expensive nor difficult, especially against a workforce with no ability to mount a meaningfully disruptive strike. It appears to me that there simply isn't the political will to do it. The teaching unions make more noise than parents and students, so they win. We return to my basic thesis, that we don't care as much about education as we'd like to think.

If you just fire the worst 10% every year, you just make teaching less attractive. As it stands, teaching is sufficiently low-status, poorly paid and unpleasant that the only people who go into it are a rare few who really want to teach and a majority who aren't competent enough to do anything else. You can't just fire bad teachers, you need to recruit good ones. For the moment, only a martyr or an idiot would decide to teach.

Re:Bill Gates: End teacher bonuses based on master's degrees... by brg on Saturday November 20, 2010 @09:09PM (#1925980)
Who has an incentive to work against public unions? Public unions operate in a monopoly for which one business can not be undercut. And after all, public unions vote.
Re:Bill Gates: End teacher bonuses based on master's degrees... by forkandwait on Saturday November 20, 2010 @09:58PM (#1926106)
The 85% of us who don't belong to the teachers unions should vote against them. Unfortunately, the teachers unions have the democratic party in their pocket, and I am sure as hell never going to vote for today's republican party (yuck!).
Re:Bill Gates: End teacher bonuses based on master's degrees... by brg on Saturday November 20, 2010 @10:43PM (#1926226)
Your estimate got me wondering what the true number is. I would guess it is a little low for non-teacher's union employees. But considering that government unions generally cooperate to form an oligarchy; from a few searches I find there are 25 million Americans directly employed by federal, state, and local governments. There are 15 million Americans who's is directly paid by government contracts. There are about 140 million Americans in the labor force, so we have 2/7 ~ 28% of the labor force directly dependent upon government.
Re:Bill Gates: End teacher bonuses based on master's degrees... by forkandwait on Saturday November 20, 2010 @11:01PM (#1926269)
I just meant for teachers unions, not all unions.

I am a government employee, btw, and I would happily vote against teachers unions (if I could vote issue-by-issue, not representative-by-representative)

Re:Bill Gates: End teacher bonuses based on master's degrees... by larrywright on Sunday November 21, 2010 @10:06AM (#1927151)
They did have some success with getting the unions to make these kinds of concessions in D.C. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405270230336240457558..., allowing the schools to cut under-performing teachers instead of having to make cuts solely based on seniority.

Unfortunately, it looks like those efforts are stalled at the moment due to the mayor losing his re-election bid.

I agree with you though, the unions are a huge part of the problem with the education system in the U.S.

Re:Bill Gates: End teacher bonuses based on master's degrees... by 3am on Sunday November 21, 2010 @12:29AM (#1926406)
The answer is completely obvious - because the teachers unions are not actually the problem with the US education system. They are just a convenient scapegoat for some people to demonize.
Re:Bill Gates: End teacher bonuses based on master's degrees... by timepilot on Sunday November 21, 2010 @08:39AM (#1927044)
Several teachers in my family - none of them would agree with you.
Re:Bill Gates: End teacher bonuses based on master's degrees... by niels_olson on Sunday November 21, 2010 @01:05PM (#1927474)
why?