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Re:California lawmakers introduce plan to end surprise ER bills by mindslight on Monday February 25, 2019 @01:04PM (#19247765)
I want to know what the legal basis for collecting from an ER patient is. At the point of needing ER services, most people are not able to form a binding contract so it cannot be that.

I do agree that hospitals should be paid for the services they perform. It's just that our society's free market notion of price-agreement is predicated on voluntary contracts.

> I talked about this with some of my physician friends, and they told me this is typical. In fact, the original bill doesn't represent what they expect to be paid

For instance, if the hospital is billing under a theory of reimbursement for services provided on your behalf, lying about their costs is textbook fraud.

Or are there explicit state laws that allow hospitals to collect from ER patients without a contract in place? If so these need to be reformed to have uniform charges no matter who the payer is. Like say towing.

Re:California lawmakers introduce plan to end surprise ER bills by howard941 on Monday February 25, 2019 @01:17PM (#19247917)
If not statutory then the patient could be said to have been unjustly enriched. The remedy for the ER provider is the court-imposed equitable quasi-contract. The pluses for the patient include the limitation that the amount has to be reasonable (quantum meruit damages)

The wiki page is brief but ok https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quasi-contract

Copyedited...

Re:California lawmakers introduce plan to end surprise ER bills by mindslight on Monday February 25, 2019 @01:40PM (#19248123)
So the real dynamic is that very few ever get to litigating the matter, because the path of least resistance is to simply speak the hospital's language and they will reduce it in-house to something more provably in-line with their expenses?

Still, it seems worthwhile to work towards penalizing hospitals for routinely going over the line, otherwise they will continue to monetize the difference between what is right and what they can get away with.

And on that front, I still have to ask how it's not straightforward fraud to lie about the expenses incurred? If we're roommates and I pick you up a gallon of milk at the store knowing you want some and will reimburse me, but I add it to our tab as $20 - am I not attempting to defraud you?

Trumped up costs do routinely happen across all sectors. It just seems on this topic that grassroots pushback is never discussed, yet could be quite appropriate. For example, a self-help form letter that demands an "out of network" hospital substantiate exactly why their expenses were double that of every other hospital.

Re:California lawmakers introduce plan to end surprise ER bills by deogeo on Monday February 25, 2019 @02:09PM (#19248405)
> how it's not straightforward fraud to lie about the expenses incurred?

It is fraud. It's just not prosecuted, because it's a wealthy corporation doing it.