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Re:Microsoft Workers Demand It Drop $450M U.S. Army Contract by Barrin92 on Friday February 22, 2019 @09:30PM (#19231208)
The US has done fine until now, in fact much better than China or Russia defending itself without getting into the business of blurring the line between private business and military to the degree that autocratic states do.

So honestly I find these sorts of responses misleading, irresponsible and agenda driven. The US does not need to be afraid of China or Russia, it dwarfs their military capacity ten times over.

And that American workers in the tech industry are conscious of the risks of having the military seep too closely into consumer facing businesses is a very good thing in a liberal society. US tech workers always had a libertarian streak, be that right or left, and the US wasn't defenseless as a result. We'd be very wise to listen to the people who want to keep private American businesses out of government weapon development.

Re:Microsoft Workers Demand It Drop $450M U.S. Army Contract by solidsnack9000 on Friday February 22, 2019 @11:03PM (#19231528)
We’d be very wise to listen to the people who want to keep private American businesses out of government weapon development.

How is it wise? Most weapons are developed and manufactured in a kind of public-private partnership.

During the Second World War, for example, the vast majority of industrial capacity turned towards building war equipment was private, dwarfing the capacity of government arsenals by a fair margin. Much of the design and development occurred in the context of public-private partnership, with national proving grounds and military agencies collaborating with aircraft manufacturers and other manufacturers of heavy equipment to design and develop weapons systems.

Boeing, Lockheed, Texas Instruments, Browning — and to go further afield, Supermarine, Marconi, Glock — these are all private names, not the names of government agencies. There are few cases of states where all, or even most, development of weapons systems is in state hands: totalitarian states.

Re:Microsoft Workers Demand It Drop $450M U.S. Army Contract by Barrin92 on Saturday February 23, 2019 @12:02AM (#19231741)
Yes, but Lockheed has the label on the door. You know that you're going to be building defense technology that is used in (foreign!) wars. Building technology that can just as well used at home at a company that faces consumers and puts funny colored letters on the door is very different.

When Amazon develops facial recognition technology that can just as easily be thrown at migrants at the border the line isn't as easy as talking about building aircraft to fight fascism in Europe.

In liberal democracies there's a line between civilian technology and military technology, and you generally know what you sign up for. This is also precisely what the engineers here talk about, they did not join Microsoft to build weapons.

Re:Microsoft Workers Demand It Drop $450M U.S. Army Contract by solidsnack9000 on Sunday February 24, 2019 @03:22AM (#19237697)
In liberal democracies there's a line between civilian technology and military technology...

This isn't true. Consider Boeing, Colt, Texas Instruments, CamelBak, AM General. Even companies, like Colt, that are dedicated to making arms also sell products into the civilian market. That is in part because in a liberal democracy the government can not restrict a company to doing business solely with them: companies are allowed to recycle their know-how in the civilian market.

Working with private enterprise and repurposing civilian capabilities is how liberal democracies do defence. Should it be otherwise? It would seem to imply even greater scope for secrecy and mismanagement, and even less civilian control and input, if defence agencies didn't work with private enterprises for most of their needs.

Re:Microsoft Workers Demand It Drop $450M U.S. Army Contract by lostapathy on Saturday February 23, 2019 @01:04AM (#19231972)
I’m not seeing how Glock fits here? They are an Austrian company founded in 1963
Re:Microsoft Workers Demand It Drop $450M U.S. Army Contract by solidsnack9000 on Sunday February 24, 2019 @02:30AM (#19237569)
Like Supermarine (British) & Marconi (Italian), Glock is a private company. Most weapon systems in liberal democracies are manufactured by private companies which also sell goods and services in the civilian market.
Re:Microsoft Workers Demand It Drop $450M U.S. Army Contract by jplayer01 on Saturday February 23, 2019 @01:56AM (#19232110)
Just because the US has better tech now doesn't mean the US can sit back and think "ah, well, they'll never catch up, let's just stop with the technological progress". That's entirely unrealistic. 30 years ago, China was a country of poor farmers. They're now an economic superpower that is increasingly sinking tons of money into their military and research.

I'm not sure you realize how much of our modern technology is thanks to defense technology grants and DARPA. Military, academia and private business have always been tightly coupled in the US and it's dishonest to pretend otherwise. Microsoft has always had plenty of defense contracts, hell , they have the largest or second largest R&D division in the world. These moral qualms are entirely new.

Re:Microsoft Workers Demand It Drop $450M U.S. Army Contract by emberrider on Saturday February 23, 2019 @07:55AM (#19233140)
I don't think they're entirely new, but consider that the average tech employee is in their late 20s or early 30s and the only major exercises of US military power they've seen were in Afghanistan and Iraq. The US has squandered its goodwill among that group by engaging in wars of aggression that were only marginally necessary. They didn't experience the cold war when the threat of nuclear annihilation was hovering over everyone (until very recently; it seems to be returning). Couple that with the highly employee favored labor market dynamics in tech and it's not surprising people don't want to take military applications up.

Also, it has to be said: it's a verdict on US leadership. The man in the oval office isn't someone I'd feel comfortable arming, nor was Bush. Even Obama had the thing with the drone strikes. When US Presidents demonstrate carelessness and unpredictability in their use of force, it turns reasonable, peace-loving people off.

Re:Microsoft Workers Demand It Drop $450M U.S. Army Contract by rland on Saturday February 23, 2019 @08:52PM (#19236653)
That unraveling of goodwill began much earlier, with Vietnam, imo.
Re:Microsoft Workers Demand It Drop $450M U.S. Army Contract by emiliobumachar on Saturday February 23, 2019 @02:00AM (#19232118)
"it dwarfs their military capacity ten times over" ... as measured per spending, right? How do we account for spending efficiency? How much more does the U.S. pay for the same thing?