News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:RIP Culture War Thread by logfromblammo on Friday February 22, 2019 @04:39PM (#19229361)
I have determined that I am far too liberal for Alabama, yet too conservative for California_SFO.

The feedback loop of exclusion works for a lot of monocultures. They just have to be offensively fanatic about something, and the zeal will drive out anyone foolishly moderate enough to disagree.

If you wouldn't enjoy assigning the Christian apostles to football team positions, you will feel like an alien somewhere. If you think veganism is nonsense from both ethical and nutritional stances, you will feel like an alien somewhere.

The ideological monocultures have to be intentionally upset, or they progress into self-reinforcing shielded bubbles, that are even tougher to crack.

I'd like to be able to live somewhere that I might hear people discussing open borders at the gun range, or misogyny at the gym, or military budgets at the coffee shop. I'm sick of people suffering "downvoted for disagreement" in real life. It's like the awful clique-caste system from high school has metastasized into (un)civil adult society, and no one can eat at anyone else's lunch table anymore.

Re:RIP Culture War Thread by komali2 on Friday February 22, 2019 @05:11PM (#19229618)
>I'd like to be able to live somewhere that I might hear people discussing open borders at the gun range, or misogyny at the gym, or military budgets at the coffee shop.

There's a gun range in the Santa Cruz mountains that's about a 20 minute drive from downtown Mountain View where I've had just those types of conversations. I had a discussion on military budgets, with sailors, in a bar in SF months back during Fleet Week. I literally had a conversation about misogyny at the gym with my friend today, because for once we were outnumbered by women there.

I think SF is an ideological monoculture in that you aren't really allowed to be racist or misogynistic or homophobic here, sure. But you're certainly allowed to be conservative in the "old" sense of the word. Tons of the new rich here are.

Re:RIP Culture War Thread by refurb on Friday February 22, 2019 @05:51PM (#19229878)
Problem is, relatively benign viewpoints are labelled as racist, misogynistic or homophobic when they aren't. And it's done in an effort to silence "undesirable" opinions.

What I've noticed the most about SF are it's inhabitants being shocked (shocked!) to learn that people have views different than them. It's as if their entire world ends at the city limits.

Re:RIP Culture War Thread by johnny22 on Friday February 22, 2019 @06:11PM (#19230029)
I think it's interesting to see all the people talking about the Bay Area here. I've never done anything but pass through California, and yet I tend to mostly share the views of these "liberal" Bay Area folks. I grew up in southern Virginia.

You should remember that we're not all from the Bay Area.

Re:RIP Culture War Thread by manfredo on Friday February 22, 2019 @06:34PM (#19230201)
If you've "never done anything but pass through California" then you should probably refrain from saying that you share the Bay Area views.

For example many people in my workplace will genuinely call you racist if you say "employment decisions should not be made on the basis of race or gender." Threats of violence towards Trump voters varying degrees of subtlety are made on public channels with no apparent repercussions, and these were positively received by much of the company.

Are these views and behavior that you agree with? Sure most liberals probably agree with Bay area liberals on national issues, but that's just the tip of the iceberg.

Re:RIP Culture War Thread by manfredo on Friday February 22, 2019 @06:52PM (#19230319)
Keep in mind that gun ranges are not at all representative of the average Bay area resident. Sure I met some conservatives at Los Altos rod and gun club.

I also dispute that people are free to be conservative in an "old" sense - whatever that is meant to mean. The majority of conservatives have and continue to believe in:

* Opposition to same sex marriage.

* Opposition to abortion.

* Support for more rigorous immigration enforcement.

* Oppose affirmative action.

Among other things. All of these things are things that would be socially unacceptable in much of the Bay Area, and employees are probably committing career suicide if they do espouse these views. Sure, people can rationalize this by saying that these political views are misogynistic or racist. But if a group constructs a definition of racism, homophobia, or misogyny that categorizes mainstream conservative views as such, then saying "you aren't allowed to be misogynistic or homophobic" is functionally the same thing as saying "you aren't allowed to be conservative."

All of these are traditionally conservative views. In fact today's conservatives are actually more accepting of gay marriage and other things than they were in the past, so I'm especially confused at what you meant by conservative "in the 'old' sense of the word."

Re:RIP Culture War Thread by thaeli on Friday February 22, 2019 @05:02PM (#19229539)
This is one of my favorite things about living in a (literally) inside-the-Beltway suburb of DC. The local governments are far enough left that I'm afforded civil rights protections, but the overall culture is accepting of a range of viewpoints. It helps that most of the zealots (of all stripes) are inherently political transients here, who come and go with the electoral cycle.
Re:RIP Culture War Thread by mikeash on Friday February 22, 2019 @05:55PM (#19229904)
I’m also inside the beltway, and indeed, my first reaction to that comment was “come to the DC area!”

As a bonus, a lot of the people are actually involved in the process somehow, so the discussion is a lot less abstract and theoretical than usual.

Re:RIP Culture War Thread by braythwayt on Friday February 22, 2019 @04:46PM (#19229417)
One of those books-that-would-be-a-fantastic-long-essay is "The Big Sort," it tackles this exact problem.

Modern life actually seems to be driving people into micro-cultures, rather than bringing people with different beliefs together.

Re:RIP Culture War Thread by api on Friday February 22, 2019 @05:07PM (#19229585)
You'd be fine in Southern California and any major city in Texas.