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Re:Mark Zuckerberg Promised a Clear History Tool Almost a Ye... by wtallis on Friday February 22, 2019 @12:17PM (#19227033)
This sounds to me like an argument for browsers to stop honoring markup that makes text invisible. Are there legitimate use cases for interspersing invisible zero-width characters in the middle of a word? I don't know what the markup that Facebook uses actually looks like, so I'm not sure how closely it resembles legitimate design patterns.

We've long had the ability to set a minimum font size, but I suspect browser vendors have viewed that purely as an accessibility feature.

(Tangent: I've also been increasingly disappointed that browsers let sites make text unselectable. I understand that there was originally a use case, but I only ever encounter it as an anti-feature these days.)

Re:Mark Zuckerberg Promised a Clear History Tool Almost a Ye... by ashelmire on Friday February 22, 2019 @12:45PM (#19227301)
Yes, there are many such use cases, and it would be impossible to predict what they are (what are you going to do, live word segmentation in the browser with any reliability across all languages in the world?). At the LDC, we do character-based annotation on words, which, since it includes highlighting individual characters, means each character has its own span (this is actually something I've seen done for wildly unrelated reasons on other sites, with spans, divs, etc). I'm sure there are millions of sites doing things like hiding/showing text that's next to other text for a million different reasons.
Re:Mark Zuckerberg Promised a Clear History Tool Almost a Ye... by wtallis on Friday February 22, 2019 @02:53PM (#19228545)
Can you elaborate on what "the LDC" is, and how broken your site would look if every piece of text you have styled to be invisible were instead shown by the browser?

Breaking up a word into multiple tags is very different from inserting invisible extraneous content into the middle of a word. The latter is what I'm questioning the usefulness of; the former I can see as occasionally useful, but should be avoided when it breaks screen readers and search engines.

Re:Mark Zuckerberg Promised a Clear History Tool Almost a Ye... by ashelmire on Sunday February 24, 2019 @04:52PM (#19240833)
Hey, sorry I missed this. LDC is the Linguistic Data Consortium (https://www.ldc.upenn.edu/). Our web annotation tool (internal app) would probably be broken in many places.

Take a modal for example - the text is not visible until the modal is opened. Let's think about menus that display on hover - they wouldn't work. What about tooltips or other sorts of floating label type things? What about other text that only appears on hover, or when some action is performed?

Sure, you could wait to insert these things into the page until the last second, but it would be less performant and complexity would be higher.

If you saw what the web looked like without display: none and visibility: hidden, I think you'd change your mind. There are infinite applications.

Re:Mark Zuckerberg Promised a Clear History Tool Almost a Ye... by mustacheemperor on Friday February 22, 2019 @02:51PM (#19228523)
>This sounds to me like an argument for browsers to stop honoring markup that makes text invisible

Aside, this reminds me of the brief period of time where "hacking" SEO by pasting huge volumes of keywords in text the same color as the background and/or hidden by other page elements was a relatively common trick. Search engines simply switched to more sophisticated methods of page ranking, I wonder what change could be made remedying this which would be similarly non-disruptive outside the bad actors.