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Re:Visa, Mastercard mull increasing fees for processing tran... by zdragnar on Friday February 15, 2019 @05:21PM (#19175269)
You're forgetting that it costs merchants money to handle cash; between miscounting at the till, plus petty theft, plus counting cash at the end of the night, plus time to take cash to the bank, plus time to take cash from the bank back (say when rolls of coins are needed).

I'd be surprised if the cost adds up to 2% of the cost of all goods, but it's still there.

> And if you're someone without access to great cards, then you still pay the same price in stores but you get no cash back, high APR, low credit limits, and crazy late fees.

That's an entirely different discussion, and completely misses out on debit cards (no APR, typically includes some form of rewards), when the bad cards should be used to build a good credit history, not as a daily driver.

Re:Visa, Mastercard mull increasing fees for processing tran... by ToFundorNot on Friday February 15, 2019 @10:47PM (#19176946)
While paperwork is easier with a cc, and the ~1.75% charge that processor's apply is valuable, there are additional risks that follow cc processing.

Fraud. While you may have an individual pay for $10-$500 in goods with counterfeit currency(rare), you'll definitely encounter $10-$5000 purchases with stolen card numbers. This means you not only lose the sale income, but you get charged a fee because there was a filing against you (charge-back).

Depending on your line of business, this can be as high as %0.66.

https://www.ns8.com/en/solutions/case-studies/industry-repor...

Re:Visa, Mastercard mull increasing fees for processing tran... by coldtea on Friday February 15, 2019 @06:56PM (#19175927)
>You're forgetting that it costs merchants money to handle cash

Not that much. Which is why all-cash businesses invariantly offer stuff cheaper.

Re:Visa, Mastercard mull increasing fees for processing tran... by Camillo on Friday February 15, 2019 @09:38PM (#19176664)
They also invariably evade taxes. Go wild on that downvote button, guys, but there's no need: everyone already knows it, and there is never going to be a political will to do something about it.
Re:Visa, Mastercard mull increasing fees for processing tran... by freedomben on Friday February 15, 2019 @10:21PM (#19176847)
Do you believe in a right to privacy regarding purchases? (every electronic transaction can be tracked for all time) If so, how does that weigh against the small amount of tax evasion that takes place?

I do think there's a right to privacy, and I do hope it's difficult to gather political will for taking away rights.

Re:Visa, Mastercard mull increasing fees for processing tran... by markdown on Saturday February 16, 2019 @02:08AM (#19177501)
In my country, many retailers now have to connect their cash registers directly to the taxman. The law behind this was enacted last year to counter tax evasion.
Re:Visa, Mastercard mull increasing fees for processing tran... by pas on Saturday February 16, 2019 @06:42AM (#19178205)
Does it work?

I mean, it's much easier for a tax inspector to simply go to the store, when it's busy, and wait for the slip up (when the clerk accepts money but does not use the register).

But in my opinion this was rare even before. And in really small operations, they don't have a register anyway. (Or take the gamble and don't use it.)

Re:Visa, Mastercard mull increasing fees for processing tran... by markdown on Saturday February 16, 2019 @04:53PM (#19181169)
> Does it work?

There's no reason why it shouldn't.

> I mean, it's much easier for a tax inspector to simply go to the store, when it's busy, and wait for the slip up (when the clerk accepts money but does not use the register).

Why would a lowly clerk break the law for his multi-millionaire employer? And why would a customer do business with a company that didn't provide receipts?

That's not how it works. The fraud happens further up the food chain. However, if the taxman knows exactly how much money came in from customers by monitoring the cash register, he knows how much to expect in taxes from that business.

> But in my opinion this was rare even before.

Perhaps in your country. A few years ago whistleblower protections and a reward system were enacted here. So anyone who dobs in a company that's been evading taxes gets a percentage (IIRC 10%) of the unpaid taxes subsequently recovered. Since then there's been a string of highly-publicised cases of the taxman coming down on tax evaders. They recover taxes and squeeze more out of them in penalties and fines, and the whistleblower (probably some low-paid bean counter in the company) get's a huge lump of cash for his troubles.

Anyway, as a result of these events, now the taxman monitors the tax registers of large companies that accept cash. Certain categories of commerce and small businesses are exempt.

Re:Visa, Mastercard mull increasing fees for processing tran... by killjoywashere on Saturday February 16, 2019 @02:16AM (#19177520)
You think Arco evades taxes? They're a pretty large gas station chain and they don't accept credit cards.
Re:Visa, Mastercard mull increasing fees for processing tran... by diebeforei485 on Saturday February 16, 2019 @03:29AM (#19177721)
Arco is not an all-cash business though - they accept debit cards.
Re:Visa, Mastercard mull increasing fees for processing tran... by duado on Friday February 15, 2019 @07:16PM (#19176032)
There's a lot of correlated factors in all-cash businesses. Yes, they don't pay CC processing, but they often sell lower-end goods, are in worse neighborhoods with lower rent, may acquire some of their merchandise in sketchier ways, etc...
Re:Visa, Mastercard mull increasing fees for processing tran... by perfmode on Friday February 15, 2019 @07:18PM (#19176042)
are we at the point where we are criminalizing the behavior of people who choose to avoid credit cards and only accept cash?
Re:Visa, Mastercard mull increasing fees for processing tran... by zdragnar on Friday February 15, 2019 @09:59PM (#19176755)
Right or wrong, it's a fairly common stereotype: a merchant who insists on cash-only transactions is dodging taxes or selling something illegal (or both, I suppose).

On the topic of criminal behavior, it's also worth noting that doing business cash-only makes you a more tempting target for robbery; if you did almost all of your transactions via credit or debit cards, you'd have very little in the till for someone to steal.

Re:Visa, Mastercard mull increasing fees for processing tran... by diebeforei485 on Saturday February 16, 2019 @03:31AM (#19177730)
Being a cash-only business also means they can pay their employees in cash - often because their employees aren't authorized to work in the country.
Re:Visa, Mastercard mull increasing fees for processing tran... by daveFNbuck on Friday February 15, 2019 @08:48PM (#19176464)
We hit that point a long time ago when having a large amount of cash with you became a justification for civil asset forfeiture.
Re:Visa, Mastercard mull increasing fees for processing tran... by raincom on Saturday February 16, 2019 @02:19AM (#19177528)
IRS forces card processors to issue 1099-k for any card processing payments. That's how it goes.
Re:Visa, Mastercard mull increasing fees for processing tran... by pas on Saturday February 16, 2019 @06:45AM (#19178210)
Could you please explain this for someone not familiar with the US tax rules and forms/numbers?
Re:Visa, Mastercard mull increasing fees for processing tran... by raincom on Sunday February 17, 2019 @03:23PM (#19186641)
In old days when cash was king, many small businesses used to under report income. Then came credit/debit cards, which require of businesses to sign up with credit card processing companies, who take the fees out and reimburse monies to your bank account.

Since old habits die hard, these small businesses used to under report income despite the trail of evidence left by credit card processors. So, IRS came in and imposed a rule on these processors: send us a copy of payments paid to Mr Small Business X--and that copy is called 1099-K. This is like W2, 1099-MISC, 1099-INT.

Basically, the tax man wants records from the third parties, since self-reported ones are mostly under reported.

Re:Visa, Mastercard mull increasing fees for processing tran... by theshortofit on Saturday February 16, 2019 @07:56AM (#19178377)
All processors ( FDC, Worldpay, Global Payments etc) are required to report credit card sales for each of their customers through 1099 reporting , This reporting is done on what is called a MID ( Merchant Identification)number. Every merchant accepting credit cards has one ( sometimes multiple)

Some processors charge merchants for this reporting services to the IRS which further drives up Merchant Services cost.

Re:Visa, Mastercard mull increasing fees for processing tran... by specialist on Friday February 15, 2019 @09:30PM (#19176637)
"...plus petty theft..."

I know people who work in hospitality. Employee theft is endemic. Via both cash and card.

Re:Visa, Mastercard mull increasing fees for processing tran... by pas on Saturday February 16, 2019 @06:46AM (#19178211)
Card? How?
Re:Visa, Mastercard mull increasing fees for processing tran... by zdragnar on Saturday February 16, 2019 @09:30AM (#19178683)
Just a story of one, but here goes:

Back in the 90's, my parents were making a purchase with a card, and the cashier told them that the machine was down, so he had to take a copy of the card to run it later. A quick swipe of their card throughv something that impressed it on carbon paper and off they went.

Not long after, police showed up at their door informing them that said cashier's apartment had been raided and a whole stack of copies of cards had been found; for every one he made for the store he kept one for himself.

Mind you, this was before ubiquitous cell phones, internet access, and way before chips in cards for encryption. Whether a similar tactic could work now I have no idea.

Re:Visa, Mastercard mull increasing fees for processing tran... by pas on Sunday February 17, 2019 @04:32PM (#19187062)
Back in the 90s when our family went on a big vacation abroad we were always advised to never agree to have our card carbon copied for exactly that reason. Though I think there was one gas station where we had to, because we were out of cash. (Back then ATMs were new, and POS was only for the rich foreigners. Strange that nowadays we run around with everything RFID/NFC and multiple cards. And yeah, this was before smart phones. Those were simpler times :) )
Re:Visa, Mastercard mull increasing fees for processing tran... by specialist on Saturday February 16, 2019 @10:43AM (#19179076)
Add or inflate the tip, then cash out.

Customer A has an open tab, customer B pays with cash, put B's drink on A's tab and pocket the cash.

Re:Visa, Mastercard mull increasing fees for processing tran... by pas on Sunday February 17, 2019 @04:28PM (#19187036)
Ah, yeah, that happens with or without customer B unfortunately. (And of course drunk people are easier to trick with cards, but then they are easy to simply rob of cash too.)