People also forget that they shouldn't speak for a billion odd people. It's a big country with a lot of diversity both culturally and socioeconomically.

The facts we do know are that (a) price affects sales, (b) China has a lot of well made, value focused phones and (c) Apple has already acknowledged their iPhones are expensive.

China is extremely homogeneous on the points I raised.

I did not claim that they were the cause of the drop but simply that these are factors that may also be at play.

North is much more patriotic and aligned with the nationalistic one China narrative than the South. If you have lived in the South, you can encounter more ambivalent view.

CPC puts huge effort to maintain the illusion of unity. The recent ramp up effort to suppress Cantonese is just one example. 80 million people (equal to the population of Germany) speaks Cantonese. Overall 400 million Chinese still can't speak Mandarin.

I'm living this 'discussion' now.

The reactions to my comment are absolutely appalling.

> that Chinese are extremely patriotic

Like in most countries where education is tightly controlled by the government, patriotism is a result of state propaganda.

> how "the foreign powers" treated them in the past.

The worst thing that happened to Chinese was not the way foreign powers treated them, but what came after under their own ruling party.

I don't know if you know the colonial history of China.

Let me share with you some interesting piece of history:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward

Wow, struggle sessions. Sounds like the management style at my employer.

Your comment sounds awfully like colonial revisionism

> The worst thing that happened to Chinese was not the way foreign powers treated them, but what came after under their own ruling party.

Does one really need references for this?

Aren't everyone aware of the massive socialist experimentations Mao executed on China's people?

The lowest estimate available is that 50 million people were killed (high end estimate closer to 80 million dead) due to political purges (cultural revolution etc.) and starvation (socialize farming, great leap forward, etc.).

A great deal of those died due to a famine. If one compares China’s development with India’s you see that over 100 million extra Indians have died since 1947 due to worse medical outcomes. (Amyarta Sen)

The famine was a result of collectivization, which had led to disastrous results in other countries which tried that before: such as the USSR experiments in Ukraine. Plus:

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward#Consequence...

> The failure of agricultural policies, the movement of farmers from agricultural to industrial work, and weather conditions led to millions of deaths from severe famine. Many also died from quota-based executions instituted by government officials. The economy, which had improved since the end of the civil war, was devastated.

There is also an estimate of 50 million dead as a result of starvation as a consequence of the colonial invasions of China in the late 19th C

See Mike Davis' Late Victorian Holocausts

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_Victorian_Holocausts

Bringing up a fact of 50-80 million lives lost is not “picking on” something.

The number of 50-80 million comes from the book "Black Book of Communism", which in itself is highly controversial and whose co-authors disassociated themselves from the author due to the methodology used.

So take these numbers with grain of salt and consider the book and its claim just a propaganda tool.

> It is widely regarded by historians that The Great Leap resulted in tens of millions of deaths.[3] A lower-end estimate is 18 million, while extensive research by Chinese historian Yu Xiguang suggests the death toll from the movement is closer to 55.6 million.[4] Fellow historian Frank Dikötter asserts that "coercion, terror, and systematic violence were the foundation of the Great Leap Forward" and it "motivated one of the most deadly mass killings of human history".[5]

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward

So your point is? Regardless of the actual figures, it was probably the worst genocide of History.

My point is, it is easy to claim ridiculous numbers, but much harder to prove them. It doesn't help the case, if they numbers are inflated for the shock value.

Now, that's pure bad faith. The point is that that has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion.

I find amusing that those so vocal against that period of Chinese history use the exact same methods to destroy critical discussion.

When did these foreign powers mistreat China? The 19th century? Most nationals cultural memories are not that long - specifically one that has been thru three major revolutions in a century.

Whatever the cause of lower iPhone sales, I'm skeptical it's what you claim - sunspots seem more likely to me.

The opium wars may have been in the 19th century but the WW1 reparations, Sino-Japanese wars, rape of Nanking, and general widespread attemps to carve territory from China, especially Western approval of the Sino-Japanese sphere of influence, were all 20th century. Western powers supporting the violent partioning of China was the norm even in the 20th century (look at Churchill's comments on the matter).

It's 20th century and we will never forget.

I agree that some leaders were stupid but we generally agree they are our own business. I'm not surprised that Xi may one day be overthrown. but with some new government, we are still patriotic. Basically it's because our thousands of years of history doesn't allow us from being discriminated by anyone, IMO.

For iPhones, I'd say they're just not sexy. The design and color are boring. Super expensive for the hardware you get. Also Apple's ecosystem doesn't really matter in China. WeChat and a few apps make iPhones and Android roughly same experience.

Regardless of what happened in history, people will only know about it if they are taught it. I assume that knowledge about the failings and oppression by the CCP is not taught in school. It’s also well known that the current Chinese government has the biggest censorship and propaganda system in the world. So the Chinese people’s opinion is relevant in that it is what they think, but it is also not necessarily a reflection of more than their government’s propaganda efforts.

> It's 20th century and we will never forget.

You mean Japanese in WW II? Bear in mind that generally, regardless of the country, being raised as overly patriotic equals to being brainwashed by educational system into lies and selective semi-truths about your history, the politics and what is actually happening in the world. Makes a good army of obedient robots, but not much more. In long term, it screws up given nation/group of people since reality will eventually bite back.