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Re:An ex-YouTube whistleblower on their recommendation engine by bad_user on Sunday February 10, 2019 @02:03PM (#19129367)
I’m hooked on HN even though the conversations here don’t give me any pleasure and I’m wasting valuable time.

I’m clearly addicted, but does HN have any sort of algorithm designed to maximize my time on it?

I’m sure these companies do everything in their power to make their services more addictive, however we have to consider that this is just looking for a scapegoat.

Re:An ex-YouTube whistleblower on their recommendation engine by kibwen on Sunday February 10, 2019 @03:35PM (#19129856)
Just so you're aware, HN has configurable settings to help force you off the site after a certain amount of time:

"Like email, social news sites can be dangerously addictive. So the latest version of Hacker News has a feature to let you limit your use of the site. There are three new fields in your profile, noprocrast, maxvisit, and minaway. (You can edit your profile by clicking on your username.) Noprocrast is turned off by default. If you turn it on by setting it to "yes," you'll only be allowed to visit the site for maxvisit minutes at a time, with gaps of minaway minutes in between. The defaults are 20 and 180, which would let you view the site for 20 minutes at a time, and then not allow you back in for 3 hours. You can override noprocrast if you want, in which case your visit clock starts over at zero."

Re:An ex-YouTube whistleblower on their recommendation engine by antonkm on Sunday February 10, 2019 @03:57PM (#19129985)
Wow, HN is awesome. Activating now, thanks for letting me know.
Re:An ex-YouTube whistleblower on their recommendation engine by jlillesand on Tuesday February 12, 2019 @01:58AM (#19141594)
Facebook actally has this too, at least in their mobile app.
Re:An ex-YouTube whistleblower on their recommendation engine by trhway on Sunday February 10, 2019 @05:10PM (#19130423)
That should have been part of GDPR.
Re:An ex-YouTube whistleblower on their recommendation engine by rjf72 on Sunday February 10, 2019 @03:05PM (#19129671)
Yip! See those little triangles by this comment?

Go look at something such as a phpbb site where topic ordering is driven solely by 'bumps' - the most recent topic to have a comment gets bumped to the top of the page listing. You'll find they rarely have any worse ordering of content than voting systems provide. In my opinion it tends to be simply superior. It also avoids the huge problem in point based systems of requiring some 'parallel universe' /new stream that only a tiny and biased minority ever view.

But voting systems drive "engagement." One intuitively surprising discovery is that downvoting users tends to drive them to comment more, frequently with lower quality posts following. I say 'intuitively surprising' because it seems counter intuitive, yet if you've spent any time on point driven message boards, including here, you see the constant stream of little tit-for-tats as a downvoted user (or two) engage in an ever lower quality of 'debate' in some isolated thread. As for upvotes it goes without saying that that little micro-shot of dopamine is what's built, and arguably sustaining, the social platforms of today.

Re:An ex-YouTube whistleblower on their recommendation engine by kibwen on Sunday February 10, 2019 @03:52PM (#19129958)
To its credit, HN actually has systems in place to deliberately discourage tit-for-tat commenting. First, it deliberately has no inbox to notify you of replies to your own comments, so you're much more likely to neglect to discover that someone has replied to your comment. Secondly, it disables the inline "reply" button for comments whose age is below a certain threshold, so that only power users who understand the workaround can actually reply to young comments. Thirdly, it has no support for navigating deep comments into dedicated subthreads like Reddit has, so instead successive comments will become narrower and narrower until eventually becoming literally unreadable (not actually sure if this one is deliberate, it could also be laziness, but the effect is the same).

As for bump-ordering, I lost most of my youth to phpbb-like forums, and I'd say they foster a mindset of even more obsessive interaction because not only do non-nested threads become impossible to follow if you're away for long enough, but keeping your preferred topics on the front page requires frequent monitoring and carefully-timed comments.

Re:An ex-YouTube whistleblower on their recommendation engine by sobani on Monday February 11, 2019 @05:54AM (#19133512)
> Thirdly, it has no support for navigating deep comments into dedicated subthreads like Reddit has

You mean like this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19129671 which directly links to the 'parent' of your comment and is formatted almost exactly like a 'Ask HN' post?

Re:An ex-YouTube whistleblower on their recommendation engine by mulmen on Sunday February 10, 2019 @03:18PM (#19129741)
In my experience on forums posting bumps is frowned upon. The ordering is then based on activity and presumably interest.
Re:An ex-YouTube whistleblower on their recommendation engine by ams6110 on Sunday February 10, 2019 @03:14PM (#19129719)
Bump driven systems suffer from the problem that half the posts are simply people posting the word "bump" in order to drive the parent post higher up on the list.
Re:An ex-YouTube whistleblower on their recommendation engine by anonred on Sunday February 10, 2019 @02:19PM (#19129465)
>does HN have any sort of algorithm designed to maximize my time on it?

HN, like reddit, optimizes for engagement using the post ranking algorithm.

Re:An ex-YouTube whistleblower on their recommendation engine by Barrin92 on Sunday February 10, 2019 @04:29PM (#19130154)
>I’m clearly addicted, but does HN have any sort of algorithm designed to maximize my time on it?

that upvotes are visible to the user is a big one. Hackernews (or reddit for that matter, which employs a similar mechanism), would work just as well for the purpose of conversation if your score was hidden.

But seeing that number next to your name climb up is something that drives a lot of engagement on the platform. I don't think this is intentional on HN's part, but on Reddit for example I have no doubt that the activity generated by the 'karma' mechanism is left in place precisely because it generates so much (meaningless) content.

Re:An ex-YouTube whistleblower on their recommendation engine by astazangasta on Sunday February 10, 2019 @07:56PM (#19131276)
I think I would engage in a much healthier fashion with this site if that number was hidden (along with comment upvotes, clearly invented by Old Scratch himself). But since it is prominently displayed in the header I assume it is intentional.
Re:An ex-YouTube whistleblower on their recommendation engine by freewilly1040 on Sunday February 10, 2019 @03:24PM (#19129784)
The lack of explicit intent doesn’t absolve these companies from responsibility. They are culpable for their externalities.
Re:An ex-YouTube whistleblower on their recommendation engine by chiefalchemist on Sunday February 10, 2019 @02:49PM (#19129594)
I believe you raise a fair point. That is, plenty of humans have plenty of habits. We are, as they say, creatures of habit. The difference now, is the online habit is easy to identify, as well as self perpetual when we interact with others.

Even email can be habitual. Stop sending them and - sans spam and newletters - you stop getting emails.

Re:An ex-YouTube whistleblower on their recommendation engine by chrisco255 on Sunday February 10, 2019 @03:12PM (#19129710)
Yeah, people were addicted to cable television too and some spent inordinate amount of hours in front of the boob tube. Is YouTube fundamentally different? Because it's able to serve more specific content to users? Maybe. Maybe some are prone to addiction regardless.
Re:An ex-YouTube whistleblower on their recommendation engine by setr on Sunday February 10, 2019 @03:30PM (#19129819)
The big threat is that if ML/AI works out, they’ll become far more efficient at it than ever before. That is, we’re following a trend/path that as a society we probably shouldn’t
Re:An ex-YouTube whistleblower on their recommendation engine by chiefalchemist on Sunday February 10, 2019 @05:03PM (#19130376)
If ML / AI works out The Matrix will be soon to follow. It's going to be a lot easier to keep the masses happy (and passive) is they're immersed in VR.
Re:An ex-YouTube whistleblower on their recommendation engine by chiefalchemist on Sunday February 10, 2019 @05:01PM (#19130360)
I think the difference is the primary device of content consumption. There were TV addicts who never left the house. Now there are internet addicts and they walk - and drive - and work among us.

It's too easy to be addict today.