The EFF is at least partially a lobbying group, do you think they're salesmen? Lobbying is just people talking to the government.

Though there is a distinction between corporate lobbying and e.g. the EFF: corporations lobby for their own interests, the EFF does it for everyone. Besides that, if company lobbying did not exist, the EFF wouldnt exist because there would be no one to work against. The EFF was specificly founded to defend the peoples interests against corporations.

You need to be more pedantic. The EFF is a 501(c)(3) organization, and that's a type of corporation.

If you want to outlaw lobbying by for-profit corporations, then they'll just create subsidiary lobbying organizations. The NRA is a 501(c)(4), which is also a tax exempt non-profit designation, and realistically it serves primarily as a lobbying group for gun manufacturers.

I'd say that's selling the NRA short. I have a few friends that are NRA members, they're as focused on gun rights as the corporations are.

That's a fair point. Though while they may not be exclusively a lobbying front for gun manufacturers, I think it's still fair to say they serve that purpose.

If you ignore the highly politicized lobbyists, you'll find that expertise is one of the main things lobbyists provide to politicians.

"We know you don't have time to dig deep. Here is a summary of the research, and our recommendations based on it."

Edit: I also once had a fairly cynical view of lobbyists. But then some people I know went to work for lobby groups after they graduated. When I looked into the types of lobby groups they went to, they were fairly impressive. Things like advocating for homeless, advocating for people without health care, etc.

The EFF, trade unions, the aclu, the southern poverty law center, all of these are experts and all of them lobby policymakers.

And all of them can still be easily outspend by corporate lobbying.

> Lobbyist being experts is something I've never heard before.

Lobbyists often are, and, whether or not they themselves are, are almost invariably supported by, domain experts.

> They are salesmen

Yeah, but they are salesmen who do the public policy equivalent of technical sales, and it's a field where selectivity is high because you are selling to a very small number of very high value customers.

Lobbyists will bring in the "expert" with necessary credentials who can "advice" on the finer points of legislation, give talking points etc. They might not directly project expertise