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Re:Lidar Is a Crutch by darkpuma on Thursday January 31, 2019 @01:39AM (#19042899)
Comma.ai isn't even close to Level 3.

Edit:

And neither is Tesla. Anybody operating either of these systems without paying attention to the road and being prepared to control the wheel at all times should have their drivers license confiscated.

See page 73 of the Model 3 owners manual: https://www.tesla.com/content/dam/tesla/Ownership/Own/Model%...

    Warning: Autosteer is a hands-on feature.
             You must keep your hands on the steering wheel at all times.

    Warning: Autosteer is intended for use only on highways and limited-
             access roads with a fully attentive driver. When using
             Autosteer, hold the steering wheel and be mindful of road
             conditions and surrounding traffic.*
Key terms: "hands-on", "fully attentive driver". It's a Level 2 system.

Page 74 makes this even more clear:

    Warning: Autosteer is not designed to, and will not, steer Model 3
             around objects partially or completely in the driving
             lane. Always watch the road in front of you and stay prepared
             to take appropriate action. It is the driver's responsibility
             to be in control of Model 3 at all times.
Re:Lidar Is a Crutch by ec109685 on Thursday January 31, 2019 @04:09AM (#19043496)
It will stop for objects in front of you. Agree though that it's a nice assist, but as you get used to it, you can predict the situations where it will fail. Definitely would not trust it to drive in an unconstrained environment.
Re:Lidar Is a Crutch by darkpuma on Thursday January 31, 2019 @09:54AM (#19045081)
> It will stop for objects in front of you.

Until it doesn't.

Failure to stop for a stationary gore point:

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2018/06/ntsb-autopilot-steered-...

https://abc7news.com/automotive/i-team-exclusive-tesla-crash...

Failure to stop for a stationary fire truck:

https://www.wired.com/story/tesla-autopilot-why-crash-radar/

Again, the Model 3 user manual is illuminating:

    Warning: Traffic-Aware Cruise Control cannot detect all objects and,
             especially in situations when you are driving over 50 mph
             (80 km/h), may not brake/decelerate when a vehicle or object
             is only partially in the driving lane or when a vehicle you
             are following moves out of your driving path and a
             stationary or slow-moving vehicle or object is in front of
             you. Always pay attention to the road ahead and stay
             prepared to take immediate corrective action. Depending on
             Traffic-Aware Cruise Control to avoid a collision can result
             in serious injury or death. In addition, Traffic-Aware
             Cruise Control may react to vehicles or objects that either
             do not exist or are not in the lane of travel, causing Model
             3 to slowdown unnecessarily or inappropriately.

    Warning: Several factors can affect the performance of Automatic
             Emergency Braking, causing either no braking or inappropriate
             or untimely braking, such as when a vehicle is partially in
             the path of travel or there is road debris. It is the 
             driver’s responsibility to drive safely and remain in control
             of the vehicle at all times. Never depend on Automatic
             Emergency Braking to avoid or reduce the impact of a collision.
The user manual tells a different tale than Elon Musk does (https://amp.businessinsider.com/images/5c0e83e40fefb34c4e3b4...) Elon Musk gravely misrepresents the capabilities of these systems to impress consumers, who are left with the mistaken impression that Tesla sells cars with Level 3 capabilities.
Re:Lidar Is a Crutch by Stratoscope on Thursday January 31, 2019 @10:32AM (#19045433)
Mobile-readable versions of the owner's manual quotes from both your messages (don't use code formatting for block quotes):

Warning: Autosteer is a hands-on feature. You must keep your hands on the steering wheel at all times.

Warning: Autosteer is intended for use only on highways and limited-access roads with a fully attentive driver. When using Autosteer, hold the steering wheel and be mindful of road conditions and surrounding traffic.

Warning: Autosteer is not designed to, and will not, steer Model 3 around objects partially or completely in the driving lane. Always watch the road in front of you and stay prepared to take appropriate action. It is the driver's responsibility to be in control of Model 3 at all times.

Warning: Traffic-Aware Cruise Control cannot detect all objects and, especially in situations when you are driving over 50 mph (80 km/h), may not brake/decelerate when a vehicle or object is only partially in the driving lane or when a vehicle you are following moves out of your driving path and a stationary or slow-moving vehicle or object is in front of you. Always pay attention to the road ahead and stay prepared to take immediate corrective action. Depending on Traffic-Aware Cruise Control to avoid a collision can result in serious injury or death. In addition, Traffic-Aware Cruise Control may react to vehicles or objects that either do not exist or are not in the lane of travel, causing Model 3 to slowdown unnecessarily or inappropriately.

Warning: Several factors can affect the performance of Automatic Emergency Braking, causing either no braking or inappropriate or untimely braking, such as when a vehicle is partially in the path of travel or there is road debris. It is the driver’s responsibility to drive safely and remain in control of the vehicle at all times. Never depend on Automatic Emergency Braking to avoid or reduce the impact of a collision.

Re:Lidar Is a Crutch by aphextron on Thursday January 31, 2019 @02:02AM (#19043008)
Sure they are. The latest openpilot is easily on par with Tesla Autopilot

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5m2yS23dl4