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Re:Re-decentralizing the Web, for good this time by thsealienbstrds on Friday January 11, 2019 @05:13PM (#18887691)
I don't know, if people could buy a 'personal cloud box' that is as user friendly as an iphone, for less than a 100 dollars, a substantial number of them might possibly do that.
Re:Re-decentralizing the Web, for good this time by TuringTest on Friday January 11, 2019 @06:14PM (#18888126)
A 'personal' cloud box is not enough. We need a 'social' cloud box which can talk to the equivalent boxes at the homes of our relatives and acquittances, and which are as easy to set up as logging into a centralized social network.
Re:Re-decentralizing the Web, for good this time by pizzazzaro on Saturday January 12, 2019 @05:28AM (#18890606)
Mastadon meets Dropbox, with a content navigation interface thrown on top?
Re:Re-decentralizing the Web, for good this time by TuringTest on Saturday January 12, 2019 @05:38AM (#18890632)
Yes, that's the thing. We know how it should be used because people are already using such systems. We need that no part of the system is owned by a single organization.
Re:Re-decentralizing the Web, for good this time by alexis_read on Saturday January 12, 2019 @06:50PM (#18894007)
https://project.hubzilla.org/page/hubzilla/hubzilla-project

This is what hubzilla can do, along with using the Zot protocol for distributed identity.The main issue really is having an easy wizard-based installation/configuration for new users wanting to host.

Re:Re-decentralizing the Web, for good this time by dcbadacd on Saturday January 12, 2019 @09:29AM (#18891286)
And the biggest issue of them all, keeping it absolutely secure while doing all that. It would be a killing blow to the venture if someone got their data stolen.
Re:Re-decentralizing the Web, for good this time by ska on Saturday January 12, 2019 @04:29PM (#18893389)
The existing centralized systems set a pretty low bar for that, to be honest.
Re:Re-decentralizing the Web, for good this time by dcbadacd on Saturday January 12, 2019 @06:55PM (#18894026)
I do not think current big centralized systems are a low bar, the attacks get more and more sophisticated, but mom&pop/volunteer/etc. systems still get exploited in the most banal ways possible.
Re:Re-decentralizing the Web, for good this time by taohansen on Friday January 11, 2019 @08:18PM (#18888821)
I'm not certain we need to make this accessible to "the next billion". We like to dress up these actions in virtue but the truth is we hook people up because it's a business. Facebook devastated our social fabric. I don't think it should have been invented. But here we are with its nuclear fallout all because some young douche thought it was a good idea.

If everyone owned a personal cloud box, security procedures would quickly fall off a cliff, those people are now the new botnet.

Maybe leave people alone, stop sticking our fingers in all the places they might stick to money. Let the geeks take care of their little tribe.

Re:Re-decentralizing the Web, for good this time by ArtDev on Friday January 11, 2019 @05:45PM (#18887920)
I love my Synology NAS server :)

Though its not really simple enough for non-technical people to set up.

Re:Re-decentralizing the Web, for good this time by taohansen on Friday January 11, 2019 @08:04PM (#18888753)
I also love my Synology DS-218+. I'm hosting my own Spotify (Airsonic [1]); music tagged to perfection with Beets [2]), an IRC bouncer because Matrix is still not ready, my own Netflix (Synology's Video Station [3]), and my own mailserver (Synology's MailPlus Server [4]). I've been giving out access to this pod to close friends. It's empowering and community-building. This is the kind of social network I desire: close-knit around the warm glow of a server.

It's really self-host heaven. I don't pay for Fastmail, Spotify, or video streaming anymore.

[1] https://github.com/linuxserver/docker-airsonic

[2] https://github.com/linuxserver/docker-beets

[3] https://www.synology.com/en-global/dsm/feature/video_station

[4] https://www.synology.com/en-us/dsm/feature/mailplus

Re:Re-decentralizing the Web, for good this time by deevolution on Saturday January 12, 2019 @01:04AM (#18889954)
Sick, now turn this into a product that can be adopted by the masses!
Re:Re-decentralizing the Web, for good this time by eitland on Saturday January 12, 2019 @02:20AM (#18890154)
I have an older Synology. It is already ready for the masses.

Why: You only need one one for a family and most of the time there's already a person in the family who does "PC stuff". And even if there isn't there's always someone who'll learn it if a friend has one.

The rest of this post is not targeted at you but rather on a whole attitude here at HN:

-------------------------------

Anyone who can operate a web browser, has any education in IT and knows enough English to read instructions in the box should be able to set up one.

In fact I think just being able to read the quick start instructions should be enough to install one with basic features.

Setting up websites in the 90ies - early 2000s were a lot harder. Same goes for using older PCs with DOS.

A major problem today seems to be learned helplessnes. In our well meant and to some degree profitable[0] effort to make sure anyone can use anything we have are creating a situation were people are more helpless .

Seriously: if app stores and walled gardens had been introduced first the web and email had been considered to complicated now. I can imagine HN: """You mean my siblings, parents and grandparents are going to install this "e-mail" thing? Even if they were able to configure "smtp" and whatnot they'd forget the "email address" or even how to start it before tomorrow."""

[0:]: if anyone doesn't catch my drift, your brightest customers might not be the ones who pays most ;-)

Edits: a number of them :-)

Re:Re-decentralizing the Web, for good this time by zbentley on Saturday January 12, 2019 @04:08AM (#18890399)
> most of the time there's already a person in the family who does "PC stuff". And even if there isn't there's always someone who'll learn it if a friend has one.

That's not true at all. Confirmation bias is rough when you're technical; you keep spotting other technical people.

Re:Re-decentralizing the Web, for good this time by eitland on Saturday January 12, 2019 @04:23AM (#18890440)
Was about to disagree strongly with your conclusion but you have a point. Not everyone had a web site.

But I'm not totally convinced either: email has been huge despite the configuration needed, also with people who had to take it step by step twice and make notes while doing it. Some figured it out on their own (or more realistically using the step by instructions that came bundled with their first modem). Other had a son or a grandson who'd picked it up at school. Others got it at work.

My grandparents where the youngest group of people I can think of that didn't have access to email somehow.

And my wifes grandparents have/had access to mail and used actual mail clients too, not just Hotmail or Gmail.

Re:Re-decentralizing the Web, for good this time by TheOperator on Friday January 11, 2019 @07:09PM (#18888473)
The issue such devices have in practice is upfront cost, compatibility, the need for port forwarding, and the lack of redundancy so you don't lose your data. Among other problems but these come to mind. Centralization solves those problems because you can connect to a server instead of port forwarding, your data might be stored across 3 servers, the cloud storage might be as cheap as free, and applications are designed to work seamlessly with a small number of big cloud providers.

In the depths of my soul I would love to re-decentralize the web. I truly believe data centralization will cause people to suffer a lot. decentralized tech needs to solve so many problems before alternatives to centralization become viable. Centralized approaches also improve over time and are a moving target to keep up with.

Re:Re-decentralizing the Web, for good this time by maccam94 on Saturday January 12, 2019 @04:15AM (#18890419)
IPv6 will help by eliminating NAT (and thus port forwarding problems). IPFS might help with redundancy. But yeah the cost and complexity are major problems. I think the biggest problem is making open standards that can evolve quickly. All the big chat platforms have switched to proprietary protocols so they can iterate and roll out changes on their own.
Re:Re-decentralizing the Web, for good this time by ndnxhs on Saturday January 12, 2019 @04:47AM (#18890499)
Basically all home routers block incoming connection because so many shitty IoT devices were built to trust anything that is able to connect to it. My router doesn't even have an option to turn off the block. Can only unblock ports 1 by 1
Re:Re-decentralizing the Web, for good this time by nicoburns on Saturday January 12, 2019 @02:16PM (#18892778)
I guess the route around this would be for the maker of these devices to partner with router companies. Alternatively, they could also be routers. That would potentially make quite a lot of sense...
Re:Re-decentralizing the Web, for good this time by ndnxhs on Saturday January 12, 2019 @08:05PM (#18894330)
I can see a lot of value in routers becoming mini home servers + IoT device hubs. There should also be some standard way for devices to let the router know if they should have access to the outer internet so things like lightbulbs only have access to the iot hub and then the hub has access to the internet.
Re:Re-decentralizing the Web, for good this time by thekyle on Tuesday January 15, 2019 @07:44PM (#18917266)
Doesn't UPnP already solve this? And it enabled by default on most routers.
Re:Re-decentralizing the Web, for good this time by MaxBarraclough on Saturday January 12, 2019 @05:24AM (#18890599)
But IPv6 routers will continue to block incoming traffic.

Which NAT/PAT/port-forwarding issues are you thinking of?

Re:Re-decentralizing the Web, for good this time by deevolution on Saturday January 12, 2019 @01:02AM (#18889948)
Dont forget about device maintenance, which is a huge burden. Users of centralized services never have to worry about upkeep.
Re:Re-decentralizing the Web, for good this time by carlosdp on Friday January 11, 2019 @05:34PM (#18887851)
These products have existed for a while and don't really make a dent.
Re:Re-decentralizing the Web, for good this time by stephenhuey on Friday January 11, 2019 @06:01PM (#18888041)
I don't think I've encountered any super simple appliance I can plug into my home network and move data onto and then easily give online services I trust access to its data. Ever since I heard about Tim Berners Lee's new project, the Solid POD (Personal Online Datastore), I've been thinking about how to make it friendly enough to people that they'd actually use it in large enough numbers to gain traction. It always seemed like people would have to learn to start paying at least a little money to make privacy work without advertising dollars. I just Googled around for the latest and noticed that the MeWe social network (which emphasizes privacy) which Tim is working with offers a free tier on data but then charges above 8 GB. I wonder if their long game on being sustainable is to just make money on add-ons above the free tier. Here's hoping it catches on...

https://mewe.com/faq