How innovative is Clojure as a Lisp dialect from Lisp expert's perspective?

Re:How innovative is Clojure as a Lisp dialect from Lisp exp... by chrisseaton on Sunday January 06, 2019 @08:25PM (#18842018)

But the paper that introduced the term 'persistent data structure' said they already existed in Lisp and gave the example of a persistent queue built by sharing the tail of an existing one with a new head?

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Re:How innovative is Clojure as a Lisp dialect from Lisp exp... by coldtea on Monday January 07, 2019 @03:10AM (#18843607)

Doesn't have to be built-in to exist in the Lisp ecosystem.

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Re:How innovative is Clojure as a Lisp dialect from Lisp exp... by chrisseaton on Monday January 07, 2019 @05:08AM (#18844062)

Sorry I don't understand what that means?

A Lisp list is a persistent data structure.

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Re:How innovative is Clojure as a Lisp dialect from Lisp exp... by cgrand-net on Monday January 07, 2019 @06:40AM (#18844431)

Sort of.

First, conses are mutable so lists are persistent as long as they are used in a persistent way -- it has to be enforced through the codebase (and deps).

Second, lists big-O access/update costs are not as interesting as persistent maps and vectors.

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Re:How innovative is Clojure as a Lisp dialect from Lisp exp... by coldtea on Monday January 07, 2019 @06:11AM (#18844324)

A Clojure seq offers much more than that. But you can re-create it in CL, it's just not built-in.

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Re:How innovative is Clojure as a Lisp dialect from Lisp exp... by chrisseaton on Monday January 07, 2019 @06:25AM (#18844372)

I was replying to

> Scheme and CL have immutable data structures, but not persistent data structures.

And I said they do. You've said Clojure persistent data structure offer more. Ok, but I just said they existed in Lisp and they do.

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