News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:75% of med students are on antidepressants, stimulants, o... by treis on Saturday January 05, 2019 @03:21PM (#18833973)
>Heart surgeons have patients with psychiatric problems.

Which they don't treat. That's why we have psychiatrists.

>And patients are typically on psychiatric medications, which have cardiac side effects.

Which is something a cardiologist should know. Knowing which mental illness they treat and how it does that isn't relevant.

Re:75% of med students are on antidepressants, stimulants, o... by markroseman on Saturday January 05, 2019 @04:52PM (#18834505)
Compliance with medication regimes and followup care can affect outcomes in cardiology, as in other areas. Understanding a patient's psychiatric illness, psychosocial functioning, and other factors can help predict treatment compliance. That in turn may influence the treatment regime the cardiologist recommends.

Medications that are prone to abuse, ones that may be more complex to take, ones that can be dangerous if someone takes too many... all are things the cardiologist should be aware of which takes some basic psychiatric knowledge.

There are few in cardiology, but many physical health meds can definitely create psychiatric side effects. How do you differentiate those from an existing psychiatric illness?

There's a large body of literature that recognizes the links between cardiac care and mental health, resulting in poorer outcomes, increased system utilization and costs, etc. Saying "this is my area, that's yours" exacerbates this problem.

Re:75% of med students are on antidepressants, stimulants, o... by DanBC on Saturday January 05, 2019 @03:26PM (#18834001)
> >Heart surgeons have patients with psychiatric problems.

> Which they don't treat. That's why we have psychiatrists.

People with mental illness also have heart problems that need heart surgery. It'd be nice if heart surgeons had a bit of understanding of psychiatry so they can avoid diagnostic overshadowing. This is a significant problem that contributes to the shorted lifespan of people with severe mental illness.

https://meta4rn.com/2018/12/15/shadow/

Re:75% of med students are on antidepressants, stimulants, o... by treis on Saturday January 05, 2019 @03:43PM (#18834122)
How to treat heart problems in the mentally ill would be useful training for a cardiologist. How to treat mental illness isn't.
Re:75% of med students are on antidepressants, stimulants, o... by jacques_chester on Saturday January 05, 2019 @07:20PM (#18835374)
The common theme in these subthreads is that you consider your ignorance as a superior source of knowledge. That since you personally don't know about a thing, the thing doesn't exist.

It's difficult to unhorse a debating partner who refuses to allow any evidence but their own imagination.

Re:75% of med students are on antidepressants, stimulants, o... by treis on Sunday January 06, 2019 @12:12AM (#18836692)
You have evidence that cardiologists trained in psychiatry are measurably better than those that aren't?
Re:75% of med students are on antidepressants, stimulants, o... by rscho on Sunday January 06, 2019 @07:30AM (#18838006)
Just let it go. You are making an apex fool of yourself in the eyes of each and every health professional reading this. It would be strictly impossible for hospitals to function based on your opinions, which is why the supporting data you are calling for does not exist. We don't pretend to program better than you do or demand solid data to support your pet language/paradigm. Have a little understanding of others for a change. You are part of the problem, not the solution. Working on that would be the real improvement.
Re:75% of med students are on antidepressants, stimulants, o... by treis on Sunday January 06, 2019 @09:20AM (#18838422)
>It would be strictly impossible for hospitals to function based on your opinions, which is why the supporting data you are calling for does not exist.

Oh nonsense. There's plenty of evidence that lower trained providers are just as effective as doctors.

Midwives are equal or better than doctors:

https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD...

No difference between Nurse Practioners and Drs:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK384613/

Of course we don't have studies comparing what the equivalent radiologist not because it's strictly impossible for it to happen. But because it's strictly illegal.

There's also evidence that the way doctors are trained isn't the only possible way.

Humanities and social science majors who omitted organic chemistry, physics, and calculus, and did not take the MCAT do just as well as traditional students:

https://journals.lww.com/academicmedicine/Fulltext/2010/0800...

Performance in medical school does not correlate with performance in residency:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2951767/

>Just let it go. You are making an apex fool of yourself in the eyes of each and every health professional reading this

Put up or shut up. Where is your evidence based argument that cardiologists who have a psych rotation have measurably better patient out comes than those that don't. Or that a radiologist with more biochem knowledge is a better one?

Re:75% of med students are on antidepressants, stimulants, o... by rscho on Sunday January 06, 2019 @11:00AM (#18838926)
Well, you clearly don't understand what you are reading. Of course there are improvements to be made. Of course we can take shortcuts. No one denies that. Same as you could bypass your shining CS degree and certifications that you are so proud of and still be a lead developer. But as they say "there is no free lunch". That is what you should be thinking about.

Or does your self-righteousness exclude that 3 professionals telling you you misunderstand could maybe have a point? I certainly earn less than you do and have no MCAT, does that make me more truthful? CRNAs also have to learn a lot about cell biology, is that also useless cruft? Something that is taught in med school is to critically review one's own reasoning!

Forget your petty certitudes and slow down. If there was an easy way to do much better, even the AMA could do nothing to stop it. I certainly don't expect to persuade you and therefore will not take the time to "put up" and brandish more useless Cochrane reviews, but you might consider the remote possibility that you are wrong. And extremely arrogant.

Re:75% of med students are on antidepressants, stimulants, o... by rscho on Sunday January 06, 2019 @11:24AM (#18839032)
Instead of searching for additional academic papers, I went on to read your comment history. Now I understand better. You are the iconic portrait of the American self-made man/woman! Going on a limb, I'd say you have a high chance of being against universal care, medical abortion and other niceties. So yeah, now I can very confidently say that you are downright nefarious to your country's healthcare system. Not just to MDs. The whole shebang.

Go hide under a rock!

Re:75% of med students are on antidepressants, stimulants, o... by treis on Sunday January 06, 2019 @11:47AM (#18839140)
"No, I don't have evidence so let me insult you again"
Re:75% of med students are on antidepressants, stimulants, o... by rscho on Sunday January 06, 2019 @12:14PM (#18839302)
If you feel insulted although I took great care in staying within what could still be defined as polite if strong disagreement, let me just make clear that your behaviour is par for the course. Let's also just highlight that it's the only time over this whole thread that you do not directly oppose what I'm saying :)