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Re:Norway's electric cars zip to new record: almost a third ... by Brakenshire on Wednesday January 02, 2019 @02:56PM (#18809541)
You’ll be downvoted because you are wrong. Because battery life isn’t an issue with thermally managed batteries, Teslas are doing well over 100,000 miles and on average retaining 80%-90% of battery life. And because electric cars will provide a massive pool for demand shifting, barring four hours of peak, electric cars can be charged at any time of day, that means with price structures you can create almost any demand curve you want.
Re:Norway's electric cars zip to new record: almost a third ... by xte on Wednesday January 02, 2019 @03:16PM (#18809755)
How old, in years, your EV is?

I bet you do not know anyone with a moderately used EV with more than five years. If I'm right wait a bit before try so sure conclusion.

I know few people with few not-so-new EVs (Renault ZE series most of them) and hear their practical experience outside marketing. No one of them is willing to buy an EV again.

Re:Norway's electric cars zip to new record: almost a third ... by maxsilver on Wednesday January 02, 2019 @04:09PM (#18810211)
> I bet you do not know anyone with a moderately used EV with more than five years.

I have a Chevy Volt from 2013. Bought it used. It's now six years old and has nearly 60k miles on it -- 75% of those on EV-only miles. I have almost no decrease in range or capacity. (It was EPA rated to 35 miles range off the lot. I got a real world 30 miles range yesterday, in below-freezing weather with aggressive snow tires on it, in a Michigan winter. When the weather warms up, it will go right back to 35 miles, just like it did last summer).

I'm never buying a gasoline car ever again. I'll buy Volts until they can't be found, and then I'll probably switch to a Bolt or equivalent.

The trick is to buy a well-designed, thermally managed battery. If you are lazy about thermals, the battery will kill itself. (See the original Nissan Leafs, anything from Ford, etc). But that has nothing to do with EV battery tech viability, and everything to do with car companies being lazy or cheap.

A properly designed EV battery will easily last over 10 years and over 100,000 miles. We have lots of examples of this (from Tesla, Chevy, and others) to prove it.

Re:Norway's electric cars zip to new record: almost a third ... by ams6110 on Wednesday January 02, 2019 @10:53PM (#18812681)
> A properly designed EV battery will easily last over 10 years and over 100,000 miles

The probem for me is, that's on the young end of the sort of cars I'm interested in buying. The newest car I own is a 13 years old Honda that has 190,000 miles.

Re:Norway's electric cars zip to new record: almost a third ... by xte on Wednesday January 02, 2019 @04:43PM (#18810533)
Well... If for you 30-35 miles are an acceptable range ok, for me it's far, far less then my need. And I talk about daily life, not counting holidays...
Re:Norway's electric cars zip to new record: almost a third ... by danjayh on Wednesday January 02, 2019 @03:36PM (#18809931)
I have a Ford Fusion Energi plug-in. Force air cooled using the computer's choice of cabin air or outside air (no dedicated AC evaporator). Battery is at 72% capacity (5.5 total kwh of 7.6 when new) after 40k and 3.3 years. Usable capacity is at 65% (~3.7-3.9 kwh down from 5.7-5.9 new). I would never buy another plug-in or electric vehicle that doesn't have some form of active cooling powered by the air conditioning sytem. Liquid cooling without a chiller powered from the AC system is insufficient. At minimum, chilled air routed from a dedicated evaporator through the battery (older Escape hybrid, Outlander PHEV), and ideally, a liquid system with a heat exchanger to the AC system (Tesla, Volt, Bolt, Pacifica hybrid, maybe others?)

Anyway, with Michigan's $0.15/kwh electricity and a climate that's either way too hot or way too cold, the break-even point for electric vs. gas is about $1.90 a gallon ... so at least for now (with gas below the break-even point), it doesn't hurt so bad that the battery capacity is so low.

Re:Norway's electric cars zip to new record: almost a third ... by xte on Wednesday January 02, 2019 @03:44PM (#18810001)
Wait: that's NOT an EV. That's an hybrid car that can run on electricity only for a very limited distance and limited speed. You basically do not use your battery, only move it around.
Re:Norway's electric cars zip to new record: almost a third ... by danjayh on Wednesday January 02, 2019 @10:04PM (#18812488)
21 miles and up to 85mph when the battery is new (although at 85mph the range would be considerably less). Electric heat and a.c., electric transmission lubrication. Mechanically, its as much an ev as the volt, with about half the battery. Were it not for the cooling problem, it would be a fantastic car. So much bigger and more usable for a family than the volt (it has a real back seat, unlike the volt, and can be loaded up with lux stuff in the platinum trim, unlike the volt).

More importantly, phevs with an ev mode that are intended to be driven as an ev for a significant portion of their miles are devalued by battery degradation in a similar way to pure evs (because of you pay all the cash for the expensive phev systems,you don't plan to be forced to use it as a plain hybrid).

Re:Norway's electric cars zip to new record: almost a third ... by freehunter on Wednesday January 02, 2019 @04:28PM (#18810415)
Is it a vehicle that's capable of being exclusively powered by electricity? Yes? Then it's an electric vehicle.

All EVs are only capable of running on electricity for a limited distance and limited speed. Eventually they all run out.

Re:Norway's electric cars zip to new record: almost a third ... by xte on Thursday January 03, 2019 @06:24PM (#18820388)
Hum, actually any car can be "exclusively powered by electricity", see start&stop systems or a mere 1st speed/reverse + starter motor...

IMO an electric vehicle is a vehicle capable of run with electrical motor's in any condition. So a modern hybrid-series ship is actually electrical because it's propulsion is electric only, parallel-hybrid vehicle are not electrical since they can't really work only on electrical motors except for limited usage.

Re:Norway's electric cars zip to new record: almost a third ... by danjayh on Wednesday January 02, 2019 @10:06PM (#18812496)
And the fusion energi can go 85mph in ev mode, so the speed is not limited in a meaningful way. You can also lock out the gas engine to keep from accidentally starting it with a heavy foot...
Re:Norway's electric cars zip to new record: almost a third ... by kirrent on Wednesday January 02, 2019 @03:34PM (#18809911)
Battery degradation is less a function of age and more of thermal management, depth of discharge, and number of cycles. Along with more durable battery design, these variables can be managed through better thermal management and more conservative battery use. Durability of EV batteries has improved in leaps and bounds in recent years.
Re:Norway's electric cars zip to new record: almost a third ... by outworlder on Wednesday January 02, 2019 @03:32PM (#18809899)
Maybe it is a problem with Renault then. Go hang out in Leaf forums instead (and the Nissan Leaf doesn't even have a thermally managed battery).

I have one. I haven't lost a SINGLE capacity bar after 3 years (first year saw really heavy usage with multiple quick charges a week). Unless it decides to self-destruct after 5 years, I would expect it to last a while.

Yes, they lose maximum capacity over time. Very slowly. They still work. This is not a phone or laptop.

Re:Norway's electric cars zip to new record: almost a third ... by xte on Wednesday January 02, 2019 @03:42PM (#18809983)
No, thanks, I do not ask on some vendor's forum. I prefer ask people I can trust as sources, not eventually disguised marketing guys or bot.

As I write before I say most of them are on Renault, But one is on a Tesla. This last one essentially stop using it because it's too large for him in city and it can't use it because of reduced range to go to it's country house or on mountains to ski without recharge...

The problem, beside battery life, Renault ZE have and nobody like to recall it in marketing is 85 euro/month fee for battery (mandatory) rental.

BTW battery tech is the very same of phones, laptop, cordless drill etc, any other devices that use lithium ion battery. Only very few vendors offer other option that last even less than Li-Ion battery.