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Re:A fake hitman, a kill list, a darknet vigilante, and a mu... by yawaworhtttt on Friday December 28, 2018 @07:49AM (#18776441)
Hitmen don't actually make their service readily available* like a pizza restaurant's website, and the ones who do quickly get caught - natural selection if you will. I haven't ever heard of a case of someone getting targeted by an online hit ordered through one of those websites, which you'd expect to if even a single one of them were actually legit. Which makes sense from an economic point of view - there's much more incentive running a (relatively inoffensive) scam and making boatloads of money, rather than risking lifetime jail and committing atrocities to make the same amount of money.

As for ordering drugs, the legal consequences vary a lot depending on the country's jurisdiction. There's also such a thing as a priority list in law enforcement, and they presumably care a lot more about murders than drug use, so one will draw much more attention than the other.

*Yes, readily available. There's nothing "dark" about a website that can only being accessible through special software, it's been a thing since the days of Usenet and BBS.

Re:A fake hitman, a kill list, a darknet vigilante, and a mu... by jstarfish on Friday December 28, 2018 @02:09PM (#18778745)
> I haven't ever heard of a case of someone getting targeted by an online hit ordered through one of those websites, which you'd expect to if even a single one of them were actually legit.

Centralizing murder-for-hire is a good way to get caught, scam or not. I believe Kuklinski did it for a while but it's not a savvy way to go about your business these days.

There have been more than a few cases of people putting ads for wetwork on Craigslist that were successfully responded to. There was even one bizarre case in which a teenaged girl put a successful hit out on herself.

> Which makes sense from an economic point of view - there's much more incentive running a (relatively inoffensive) scam and making boatloads of money

Not everybody is intelligent/skilled/capable enough for organized crime. To a lot of people, a mere $5000 is enough money to get caught up on their late rent, car payments and child support. Pull-trigger-get-5k is a simple procedure, moreso than running elaborate darkweb portals and fucking around with Bitcoin.

Contract killing hasn't changed much over the ages. You don't need to retain a celebrity hitman, you just need to get in contact with some desperate nobody willing to do anything to make ends meet. Morality and ethics are luxuries for those who can afford it.

Re:A fake hitman, a kill list, a darknet vigilante, and a mu... by jpatokal on Friday December 28, 2018 @08:15AM (#18776520)
Online drug dealers are similarly incentivized to sell oregano and baking soda, yet apparently there are plenty of real drugs being transacted as well, including quantities well beyond personal use. And it does depend on the jurisdiction: I'd wager that in (say) the Philippines and some parts of Central America a kilo of heroin would draw more police attention than a murder, unless the victim is well connected.

And to be clear, I'm not saying murder for hire on the Internet is a thing; I'm just mildly surprised nobody seems to have done it yet, especially now that cryptocurrencies have pretty much solved the largest problem of how to get paid.

Re:A fake hitman, a kill list, a darknet vigilante, and a mu... by yawaworhtttt on Friday December 28, 2018 @08:41AM (#18776615)
Reviews and escrows are a thing in the drug world. Generally speaking everything with drugs is easier:

-It's easier to manufacture your own drugs than commit murder

-It's easier to go unnoticed by law enforcement manufacturing, selling or buying drugs than going unnoticed with murder

-Enforcement authorities around the world are much more willing to cooperate with each other when it comes to solving murder rather than busting someone's MDMA lab

-The market for drug consumption is much larger than the market for hitmen (fortunately!) and it's easier to reach out for the former audience rather than the latter

-There are much more third parties willing to act as escrow for drug trade rather than hitmen services

-There's a moral case to be had about leaving drug use alone (victimless crime and all that), as opposed to murderers or murder instigators which are universally reviled; there are much fewer people willing to engage in a hypothetical hitman market than there are with a drug market

-A review system can actually work with drugs because of the large demand and relatively risk-free aspect for buyers; a good seller can quickly build a reputation, while a bad seller will get buried by bad reviews. Can you imagine a hitman customer writing an Amazon-style review over the person he had murdered?

>And to be clear, I'm not saying murder for hire on the Internet is a thing; I'm just mildly surprised nobody seems to have done it yet, especially now that cryptocurrencies have pretty much solved the largest problem of how to get paid.

There just isn't enough demand for it to be worth the risk and hassle. As I said, any hitman stupid enough to set up a front store is begging to be busted by undercover cops posing as "customers".

Re:A fake hitman, a kill list, a darknet vigilante, and a mu... by naasking on Friday December 28, 2018 @10:01AM (#18777064)
> -It's easier to manufacture your own drugs than commit murder

Well that seems false. You literally need no equipment to commit murder. If you have no connection with the victim, it's even easy to get away with it with a few precautions.

Drug synthesis is much, much harder.

The rest of your points seem mostly sound. The low demand for murder services is probably the most pertinent reason for the difference.

Re:A fake hitman, a kill list, a darknet vigilante, and a mu... by yawaworhtttt on Friday December 28, 2018 @10:13AM (#18777139)
I was taking into account the human factor; most people are simply not willing to kill another human being in cold blood, whether it's sheer empathy or the risk of getting caught.
Re:A fake hitman, a kill list, a darknet vigilante, and a mu... by jandrese on Friday December 28, 2018 @03:35PM (#18779218)
I think simple human empathy would be a problem for anybody considering a career in contract killing.

A bigger problem might be that it's not as easy to for sure kill someone as most people think, especially if you want to avoid leaving any evidence at all. It only takes one error to kill your career. It also doesn't help that the public's image of assassins (super professional bald guys with enormous resources) is pretty much completely wrong. Actual assassins are much more likely to be drug addicted flat broke bums.

Re:A fake hitman, a kill list, a darknet vigilante, and a mu... by naasking on Friday December 28, 2018 @08:05PM (#18780921)
> It only takes one error to kill your career

I think this overstates the case. Up to 40% of murders go unsolved in any given year. Most murders are committed by people the victims know, that's why they're "easy" to solve. If you don't know your victims, there's virtually no way for the police to link you to the crime unless you make a colossal mistake, like divulging our identity or your contact info to the person who hired you, as the police will be looking at them closely.

DNA and fingerprints, unless you're already a criminal where those are registered, would only establish you as serial murderer whose identity is unknown.

Re:A fake hitman, a kill list, a darknet vigilante, and a mu... by jandrese on Saturday December 29, 2018 @02:58PM (#18785379)
Or someone's camera-doorbell catches you walking down the street at the time of the shooting and they match your face up at the airport...

Or a cop happens to be sitting one street over and hears a gunshot and gets to the scene just as you're stepping out of the building.

Or the victim is paranoid and has an itchy trigger finger.

Or the cops are investigating the victim's family and associates and notice a weird pattern in their bank account.

There's a lot of ways a killing can go wrong. Even if the odds of any one killing going bad are small, the cumulative chance of an error creeps up with each job. Worse, it's hard to jack up your prices really high to reduce the number of jobs you have to do because the more money moves around the more scrutiny it receives.

Re:A fake hitman, a kill list, a darknet vigilante, and a mu... by naasking on Saturday December 29, 2018 @03:12PM (#18785453)
Every circumstance you described is clearly exceptional and not representative of the norm, which don't seem to change the points I've made. Simple precautions would handle most of them too.

Interesting that you assume an assassin's preferred method of execution is a gun or other violent means of execution. That seems like the last resort of anyone competent to me.

Re:A fake hitman, a kill list, a darknet vigilante, and a mu... by jstarfish on Friday December 28, 2018 @02:17PM (#18778792)
Empathy is not a consideration in the mind of a hungry man.
Re:A fake hitman, a kill list, a darknet vigilante, and a mu... by eitland on Friday December 28, 2018 @04:40PM (#18779666)
This has been proven wrong by many a hungry man.
Re:A fake hitman, a kill list, a darknet vigilante, and a mu... by lordnacho on Friday December 28, 2018 @08:39AM (#18776612)
There's probably a lot of people who think drugs ought to be legal, and that they're only avoiding an unreasonable law when they sell you drugs.

There's probably a lot fewer people who think that about the hitman business.

Re:A fake hitman, a kill list, a darknet vigilante, and a mu... by phowat on Friday December 28, 2018 @11:40AM (#18777767)
Because drug users are much more likely to become returning customers, there is more money to be made on being legit instead of a scam.