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Re:Machine learning has become alchemy (2017) [video] by chrishare on Tuesday December 25, 2018 @07:47PM (#18759848)
I think a valid concern is that ML methods are being applied in critical, real-life scenarios without some practitioners being aware of flaws (bias, adversarial attacks, privacy issues) and without any theoretic safetynet that helps them reason about how these systems will behave. James Mickens discussed this recently in a keynote: https://www.usenix.org/conference/usenixsecurity18/presentat...

Maybe the only way to make steady progress here is to blaze ahead and rely on empirical evidence, whilst the theory is inevitably fleshed out. That's often the counter argument - that we do not know how the brain works, but rely on it nonetheless.

Re:Machine learning has become alchemy (2017) [video] by andrewflnr on Tuesday December 25, 2018 @08:40PM (#18759976)
We don't rely on the brain though, at least not on any single one. Any system that relies on human brains alone without cross-checking or, ideally, much simpler automatic systems, will eventually malfunction terribly. A large organization never wants to rely on a single person's judgment for anything, a programmer wants automated systems checking their work, etc.
Re:Machine learning has become alchemy (2017) [video] by dontreact on Wednesday December 26, 2018 @02:21AM (#18761093)
We rely on a single human to drive a car.

In medicine, machine learning systems will work alongside other brains.

What are the instances you’re imagining where a group of brains running an important system are replaced by a single machine learning algorithm running in isolation?

Re:Machine learning has become alchemy (2017) [video] by andrewflnr on Wednesday December 26, 2018 @06:57PM (#18765977)
Yeah, and around 800 people a day die in auto accidents in the US. Bringing up cars bolsters my point, which is that "we rely on the brain without understanding it and that works out fine" is not a good argument. So let's be careful. I'm mystified as to why that seems to be controversial.
Re:Machine learning has become alchemy (2017) [video] by dontreact on Thursday December 27, 2018 @11:30PM (#18774880)
Are you saying that we should require 2 drivers per car? It seems like at the moment the risk/reward ratio of allowing people to drive a car after getting a license seems to work out well enough. 1 death per 100 million miles driven, and falling.
Re:Machine learning has become alchemy (2017) [video] by andrewflnr on Friday December 28, 2018 @10:36PM (#18781644)
No. I'm saying

> that "we rely on the brain without understanding it and that works out fine" is not a good argument.

It wasn't my idea to bring cars into it particularly.