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Re:The Joel Test: 12 Steps to Better Code (2000; Still relev... by edanm on Friday November 05, 2010 @04:29AM (#1872430)
"there was a time not too long ago where important work with millions on the line routinely got done with one copy of the code sitting on a single workstation, and collaboration happening over network shares or email. I worked at one of those places. It sucked. The Joel Test was part of an evangelization movement which changed standard practices in our industry radically, for the better."

I'm all for the Joel Test, and I've definitely seen places without source control, or with terrible or no source control.

But do you really think the Joel Test was on of the real pushers for change? I know Joel is popular, but I'd bet the Joel Test has been read by all of 1-2% of programmers. Moreover, I'd guess that it's the 1-2% who were already using source control.

Don't mean to nitpick, I'm honestly wondering if I'm underestimating the impact of this article. Completely agree with the rest of your comment.

Re:The Joel Test: 12 Steps to Better Code (2000; Still relev... by jasonkester on Friday November 05, 2010 @04:36AM (#1872448)
Sounds like you might not have been around back at the turn of the century.

Back then, there were no blogs. There were no programmers who wrote stuff. Joel was pretty much the first. And his stuff was really good and actionable.

So if you cared to read about your field, you were reading Joel. If you sent a programming link to your team, chances are it was one of his articles.

Coming into the field today, it's understandable that you might not have heard of the guy. But if you were around in the late 90s and you'd heard of anybody, you'd heard of Joel. If you were on a team in the late 90s and you wanted to improve things, you sent around a copy of the Joel test.

So yes, I do think a lot of the credit for the higher standards we have today goes to him.

Re:The Joel Test: 12 Steps to Better Code (2000; Still relev... by nostrademons on Friday November 05, 2010 @05:28AM (#1872547)
That's not really true. Greenspun was the hot pundit before Joel. A bunch of people hung out on SlashDot. And the C2 Wiki, which arguably was filled with more experienced practitioners than Joel, has been around since 1995.
Re:The Joel Test: 12 Steps to Better Code (2000; Still relev... by ekidd on Friday November 05, 2010 @08:00AM (#1872784)
I've been programming professionally since 1997 or so, and as a hobbyist well back into the 80s. There were certainly programming blogs back then--I was working on an RSS aggregator in 2000, and my own blog dates back to 1998:

http://web.archive.org/web/19981206053731/http://www.randomh...

I was inspired by Scripting News, which had been discussing programming for quite a while at that point.

But you're right about the 90s. They were a disgusting decade in a lot of ways. The reasonably _good_ development shops of the 90s looked like the horrible shops of today. I worked at a couple of top-flight Common Lisp companies in those years, and they had (1) incomplete, token test suites with dozens of "expected" failures, (2) release cycles of a year or more, (3) independently written modules with "big bang" integration a couple of times per year, and (4) version control systems ranging from CVS (on a very good day indeed) to vile, in-house horrors written in Perl 4. But when I talked to other programmers, nearly all of them worked in much worse environments.

The early days of the XP movement were a revelation for me: You could test _everything_. You didn't have to get the design right up front. Instead, you could rely on your unit tests to help you refactor your code. You could work in 2-week release cycles and pull your features from a constantly-changing priority queue. This, of course, all seems completely obvious today, and not even particularly "agile".

Starting around 2000, Joel wrote his short, funny essays. The biggest advantage of Joel on Software wasn't that his ideas were new, but that he communicated them well enough for managers to understand. And I stopped a few bad decisions in my day by sending those essays around. So while I agree his writing was influential, I don't think he deserves _quite_ the central importance you give him.

Re:The Joel Test: 12 Steps to Better Code (2000; Still relev... by edanm on Friday November 05, 2010 @04:51AM (#1872483)
"So if you cared to read about your field, you were reading Joel. If you sent a programming link to your team, chances are it was one of his articles."

I think this is where it fails - most people don't read about their field, at all. At least in my experience.

I was only programming professionally in 2004, though, for what it's worth.

Re:The Joel Test: 12 Steps to Better Code (2000; Still relev... by nadam on Friday November 05, 2010 @06:06AM (#1872598)
I began programming professionally at around 1997. Joel wrote this article in 2000. Before 2000 I've worked for Nokia, GE, and Lufthansa Systems. Source code control were a trivial established practice already at all these firms even in their Hungarian 'outsourced' parts where I worked.