There actually are separate Python ecosystems (applications embedding Python or relatively detached distributions like Anaconda). Similarly you don't really care about e.g. the larger Lua ecosystem when you are targeting a specific application using Lua. It has its own ecosystem.

That's my point though. Unless the primary language developers themselves say "Hey, this ecosystem is broken" and then make an alternate one, we are generally stuck with the old broken one being the de facto standard. And even in that scenario you have to make the choice between breaking compatibility with everything that relies on the old ecosystem, or supporting both new and old at the same time. The lesson to be learned here is you only really get one shot at doing the ecosystem the right way, so do it right the first time. Hence Crystal/Go/Rust/Nim/etc

Generally, yes, but in Python, no; there are at least 2 good ecosystems.

I think the frustration with that argument is, who is it directed at? How would you fix it?

venv has been included with Python since 3.3 (2012) and was a separate package before that. If you're having troubles with the ecosystem playing well with Python 2.6 (2008) what do you expect anyone to do? I really think OS package managers have been really negligent about multiple versions and project-level dependencies--maybe it's outside of their scope (that also wouldn't help you on Windows)? People have been griping about software specific package managers for over a decade and OS package managers have only added the most minimal support, but never addressed the reason for them.

I've argued for years, if something is critical to your business then decouple it from the OS. Of course a new version might screw up your OS and you may need it to address a specific business concern...that's just one of the problems of any interpreted language. I wish things were better out of the box, but it's not unreasonable to address yourself.

> No one is going to be able to prop up an alternative ecosystem and get more traction than the language's own ecosystem

node vs web browser? linux vs unix? ubuntu vs debian? autotools vs base make?

i'm sure these aren't the best examples.

irrespective, you can (like|dislake) the language and (like|dislike) the ecosystem separately.

"oh I hate programming in XYZ it's far too verbose but it really does have a nice package management system"

yes, they are connected, but I don't criticize a hamburger by complaining about the taste of my soda..