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Re:Today is Esperanto Day – here’s why I learned it by bluedevil2k on Saturday December 15, 2018 @12:36PM (#18689335)
I wonder if a better solution for a "universal" language would be a Simplified English, where the English language as spoken in the US/UK is greatly simplified in terms of rules, spelling etc. Go with the Esperanto idea of a common verb tense rule (I go, He go -> I goed, He goed), and clean up the spelling (tough -> tuf, though -> tho). Most people in the world have a grasp of English based on the Internet and entertainment, maybe making it even easier to learn would help them become proficient in it.
Re:Today is Esperanto Day – here’s why I learned it by KhoomeiK on Saturday December 15, 2018 @01:00PM (#18689484)
There are already a number of English-based conlangs, creoles, and pidgins that are effectively what you described.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_English

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English-based_creole_language

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English-based_pidgins

This one especially: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tok_Pisin

Re:Today is Esperanto Day – here’s why I learned it by thomasfoster96 on Sunday December 16, 2018 @06:18AM (#18692637)
Tok Pisin and other English-based creoles are not simplified English though – they’re languages in their own right where English has served as a major influence. I don’t think that many English speakers would view Tok Pisin inflecting verbs for transivity, having inclusive/exclusive and dual/trial pronouns and making extensive use of reduplication as being simpler.
Re:Today is Esperanto Day – here’s why I learned it by kevinios on Saturday December 15, 2018 @12:51PM (#18689426)
I would love that, but there is one potential issue: English is really hard to pronounce well, and therefore it takes years to understand it well. There are many ways to pronounce the same combination of letters, depending which word they are part of (like "ough", etc.). Words have emphasis that also make them more difficult to pronounce.

Many non-native English speaker I know (myself included) still have a hard time understanding some English words after 15-20 years or more of English as a second language and having lived in English-speaking countries for years. A native English speaker could still pronounce a word and they would have very little idea how to write it, and therefore won't be able to look it up in a dictionary.

On the contrary, after a few minutes/hours of learning Spanish pronunciation, one is usually able to write words that they hear pronounced slowly, since they are written as they are pronounced and there is only "one" way to pronounce them. Same for Esperanto I believe, or language like Korean (although it's a different alphabet so it takes more time for anyone used to the latin alphabet, but it is still phonetic).

Re:Today is Esperanto Day – here’s why I learned it by currymj on Saturday December 15, 2018 @04:31PM (#18690442)
As linguists will sometimes joke, English spelling is extremely useful, you can look at an English word and tell exactly how it was pronounced 700 years ago.

Even native English speakers struggle with it. This is the so-called "curse of the autodidact": when people have read quite a bit on a specialized topic but never had a spoken conversation about it, and mispronounce technical words or place the stress on the wrong syllable.

Re:Today is Esperanto Day – here’s why I learned it by kevinios on Sunday December 16, 2018 @06:17AM (#18692634)
Interesting!
Re:Today is Esperanto Day – here’s why I learned it by myth2018 on Saturday December 15, 2018 @01:10PM (#18689537)
> A native English speaker could still pronounce a word and they would have very little idea how to write it, and therefore won't be able to look it up in a dictionary.

Not by coincidence, in USA they have spelling challenges aired nationwide.

Re:Today is Esperanto Day – here’s why I learned it by __david__ on Saturday December 15, 2018 @01:41PM (#18689674)
Oh wow, I had never considered that spelling bees might be uniquely English (the language).
Re:Today is Esperanto Day – here’s why I learned it by myth2018 on Saturday December 15, 2018 @05:11PM (#18690650)
It's not uniquely english
Re:Today is Esperanto Day – here’s why I learned it by kevinios on Sunday December 16, 2018 @06:19AM (#18692641)
Indeed, and I suppose spelling bees makes sense for any language that is not written exactly as it is pronounced, French being one of them. From what I've read so far, Esperanto only has a single way to write every sound it uses, so it would be much less challenging.
Re:Today is Esperanto Day – here’s why I learned it by myth2018 on Sunday December 16, 2018 @07:33AM (#18692821)
Yes. Here in Brazil there are some competitions. It's a challenge indeed (portuguese), but not such a big one.

In Esperanto there is a 1-1 relationship between letters and sounds by design, so a spelling bee wouldn't be a challenge.

Re:Today is Esperanto Day – here’s why I learned it by amanaplanacanal on Saturday December 15, 2018 @02:08PM (#18689801)
What you are talking about isn't a problem with the language, it's a problem with the spelling. Which I agree is totally messed up.
Re:Today is Esperanto Day – here’s why I learned it by kevinios on Sunday December 16, 2018 @06:16AM (#18692633)
Let me know what you think, but I suspect spelling is not exactly the issue, but rather the fact that there is not a single way to write each sound. There are several sounds possible for each spelling ("ough").

If there were a single way to write each sound, then the spelling in itself wouldn't really matter, as we would only learn the spelling of each sound once and be done with it; we'd always recognize it.

Re:Today is Esperanto Day – here’s why I learned it by outside1234 on Saturday December 15, 2018 @12:42PM (#18689365)
Especially since this is effectively what is happening - when I speak English with someone from a non-native country I essentially drop into much simpler non-idiomatic vocab set.
Re:Today is Esperanto Day – here’s why I learned it by SlowRobotAhead on Saturday December 15, 2018 @12:56PM (#18689464)
Saw this a lot in Indonesia and Malaysia where specially “manglish” is common. They have a need for English, but not all the rules.

Cognates sometimes take their more obvious English phonetic spelling.

Issue with those two languages specifically is they don’t have great past present and future tenses. “I have a car” and ^“I had car”* are initially similar and you need to differentiate later, “I have a car but I sell it, so I won’t drive you”. so English with its tenses is important - but “P as in pterodactyl” isn’t.

Re:Today is Esperanto Day – here’s why I learned it by inawarminister on Saturday December 15, 2018 @07:21PM (#18691070)
Eh? Pernah (had) and dulu (before) are our modifiers to make past tenses, and so is akan for future tense (the exact same usage as will, and less confusing!)

Indonesian English is only used by a few people (mostly urban youngsters), but from what I know Manglish is common because some Malaysians refuse/don't see the point in learning Malay, which is sad...

Re:Today is Esperanto Day – here’s why I learned it by SlowRobotAhead on Saturday December 15, 2018 @08:58PM (#18691356)
I don’t speak it, so IDK. It was just explained to me that tenses weren’t always there. But, that was explained to me by a primarily English Malay speaker which - goes to the topic you mentioned which is sad.
Re:Today is Esperanto Day – here’s why I learned it by qwerty456127 on Saturday December 15, 2018 @04:15PM (#18690377)
> tough -> tuf, though -> tho

Looks a lot like Scots :-)

Whatever, inventing a new language (even based on another one heavily) only makes sense if it is going to be better than all the other existing by orders of magnitude. IMHO just making an existing language slightly easier to learn while annoying all the existing speakers (English speakers reading a text won't immediately recognize tuf as tough) does not qualify. As long as we don't manage to produce a distinct engineered language so unquestionably amazing that a huge part of the people would adopt it readily the only viable alternative remaining is just sticking with an existing language that is reasonably easy to learn (e.g. English is usually considered easier to learn than Chinese or even than French but I'd love to know if it actually is easier for people whose native language is neither Indo-European nor Sino-Tibetan and uses a different kind of alphabet) and already is spoken by a significant portion of the whole set of people it is meant for.

Re:Today is Esperanto Day – here’s why I learned it by Riverheart on Saturday December 15, 2018 @01:20PM (#18689581)
Oh, you mean the proposal by the European Commission :)

https://www.davidpbrown.co.uk/jokes/european-commission.html

Re:Today is Esperanto Day – here’s why I learned it by notahacker on Saturday December 15, 2018 @12:53PM (#18689446)
Fixing the spelling in a way which pleases everyone is a challenge (pure phonetic spelling likely makes it significantly harder to read for Latin-language speakers as well as English speakers, for example)

But in general the quirks in English are quite easy to drop without losing meaning, things like definite and definite articles can be made optional and then you end up with something not dissimilar to how many basic ESL speakers from different countries communicate with each other anyway...

Re:Today is Esperanto Day – here’s why I learned it by __david__ on Saturday December 15, 2018 @01:49PM (#18689710)
Fixing the spelling reminds me of Mark Twain's (intentionally humorous) essay: http://guidetogrammar.org/grammar/twain.htm