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Re:Second Canadian 'missing' in China by monksy on Thursday December 13, 2018 @12:59AM (#18670192)
If this is a retaliation and they intend on continuing on this. China is going to find it's self on the bad end of travel advisories by a lot of western nations.

BTW There have been videos about "tourist crackdowns" and how some of the authoritarian governments use visitors as scapegoats of bad behavior.

Re:Second Canadian 'missing' in China by thestephen on Thursday December 13, 2018 @05:33AM (#18671277)
China is actually doing something similar right now, albeit in a different way: https://nordic.businessinsider.com/china-swedens-bizarre-feu...

Chinese tourists visiting a Swedish hostel in Stockholm sparked an international incident when they appeared on video screaming and crying and accusing local police of trying to murder them.

The "graveyard" they were dropped off at is more of a park, with a train station 8 minutes from the city.

Re:Second Canadian 'missing' in China by secwait on Thursday December 13, 2018 @05:56AM (#18671372)
China will avoid doing the same with other nationalities. Only canadians will be targeted. And they will not target people with no significance.

They also don't care about other chinese nationals getting harrassed in canada. They want to prevent rich people from taking more money out of the country any way. Problems with canada will get that good side effect. China care very much about Huawei and tech sector overall. They will do anything it takes to help them.

If you are canadian and maybe maybe also american who is somebody (not nobody), you may want to avoid china in your trips now.

Re:Second Canadian 'missing' in China by diminish on Thursday December 13, 2018 @02:22AM (#18670460)
US has become a risky destination for ordinary business travel. I suppose business and tech conferences better take place in neutral places where rule of law prevails.
Re:Second Canadian 'missing' in China by alextooter on Thursday December 13, 2018 @04:31AM (#18671032)
I remember German and France businessmen arrest in US. IMF's ex president is also arrest because he question the GOLD problem.
Re:Second Canadian 'missing' in China by mips_avatar on Thursday December 13, 2018 @08:10AM (#18672014)
It’s a risky place to go if you break US sanction and export law.
Re:Second Canadian 'missing' in China by sonnyblarney on Thursday December 13, 2018 @03:58AM (#18670894)
This is simply false, and the US will continue to be the #1 location for tech conferences for the foreseeable future.

The only risk to travellers is that US customs may require people to see their Facebook profiles etc. - which is bad - but nobody is getting arrested arbitrarily, and even if they were 'rule of law prevails'.

Re:Second Canadian 'missing' in China by ahakki on Thursday December 13, 2018 @05:48AM (#18671340)
Well I don’t know about tech, but multiple swiss banks have had internal advisories against visit to the US, as some of their employees have been arrested.
Re:Second Canadian 'missing' in China by sonnyblarney on Thursday December 13, 2018 @06:26AM (#18671497)
Swiss banks have been hiding assets of people worldwide and many nations consider that a crime. So yes, if you're helping Americans cheat on their taxes, you're going to get arrested.

So the 'advisory' would be: don't break laws.

Re:Second Canadian 'missing' in China by NTDF9 on Thursday December 13, 2018 @09:21AM (#18672445)
> So the 'advisory' would be: don't break laws.

Whose laws? Why should the Swiss follow US laws? What if the US establishes arbitrary laws? Should the Swiss still follow those laws?

Re:Second Canadian 'missing' in China by tomp on Thursday December 13, 2018 @10:14AM (#18672814)
But that's the point, no? Swiss have their own laws (hiding assets), US have their own laws (arresting people who hide assets), seems perfectly fair.

Personally, I wish no developed (e.g. EU, US) country would allow any economic relationship with any country that allows tax avoidance (like 0% tax) or tax evasion (like bank secrecy).

Re:Second Canadian 'missing' in China by NTDF9 on Thursday December 13, 2018 @10:54AM (#18673198)
> Personally, I wish no developed (e.g. EU, US) country would allow any economic relationship with any country that allows tax avoidance (like 0% tax) or tax evasion (like bank secrecy).

But US allows huge tax deductions for businesses. Maybe other countries don't? Wouldn't they have a right to say, "Personally, I wish no developed (e.g. EU, US) country would allow any economic relationship with any country that allows unfair deductions or tax evasion (like states give to Amazon).

Re:Second Canadian 'missing' in China by sonnyblarney on Thursday December 13, 2018 @05:45PM (#18676833)
Tax avoidance is fine. That's for the government to sort out.

As for " Swiss have their own laws (hiding assets)," - not really.

UBS et. al. are not supposed to be helping Americans evade paying taxes - by their own law.

Re:Second Canadian 'missing' in China by sonnyblarney on Thursday December 13, 2018 @12:52PM (#18674362)
Money laundering and tax evasion are not 'arbitrary' laws.
Re:Second Canadian 'missing' in China by NTDF9 on Thursday December 13, 2018 @01:55PM (#18674963)
> Money laundering and tax evasion are not 'arbitrary' laws.

Please define tax evasion. If country X's government legally authorizes a tax provision like mortgage deduction for tax reduction or tax-free interest or tax breaks for S-corps or tax reduction for exported payments, are these all tax evasion?

When people talk about companies evading taxes, they're really working through the tax code. Some countries have positive balance sheets and very little debt. They can afford to give companies tax breaks.

Re:Second Canadian 'missing' in China by sonnyblarney on Thursday December 13, 2018 @05:43PM (#18676814)
Tax evasion is simple: people not paying the taxes they are owed to the government. What you are referring to is tax avoidance or minimization, which is fine (or rather, another problem, mostly the governments)

"When people talk about companies evading taxes, they're really working through the tax code."

Switzerland facilitates tons of actual tax evasion, which they are not supposed to do, and which is illegal in the US.

From [1] "the Swiss financial sector and the DoJ began a decade ago when whistleblower Bradley Birkenfeld provided evidence that his former employer, UBS, was helping wealthy Americans evade taxes.

Switzerland’s largest bank was fined $780 million in 2009, but it was later discovered that other Swiss banks had been poaching UBS clients after the criminal probe had been announced. "

Switzerland is party to many treaties with EU, US etc. - and they (gov. and banks) know exactly that they cannot facilitate tax evasion, if so, it becomes a crime.

This is not ambiguous.

If you, living in Switzerland, help facilitate a crime such as murder (i.e. totally unambiguous) in the US, then the US will extradite you even though you may not have broken any Swiss laws.

Tax evasion is a crime like any other, hence extradition and arrests etc..

Though some cases may have some ambiguity i.e. (what constitutes 'aid' and maybe some hairline differences between 'evasion' and 'avoidance') - in general, it's crystal clear: if you help people with tax evasion, you've committed a crime.

And FYI - the reciprocal works just the same - if you murder someone in Switzerland, but have not broken and US laws, you can be sure that the Americans will arrest you and send you to Switzerland if that's what the Swiss authorities want.

[1] https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/-5-million-fine_swiss-bank-sett...

Re:Second Canadian 'missing' in China by golfer on Thursday December 13, 2018 @08:53AM (#18672286)
(Citation needed)
Re:Second Canadian 'missing' in China by tinza123 on Thursday December 13, 2018 @01:16AM (#18670239)
That seems to be the least of the problems right now. And of course when Canada just arrested business people they never need to worry about the travel advisories for Chinese ppl.
Re:Second Canadian 'missing' in China by monksy on Thursday December 13, 2018 @01:35AM (#18670310)
I'm suggesting is that a lot of western nations may place it on a "Risky Travel location" warning.