Great comment. Sometimes I find conversations/debates between programmers get lost in irrencoilable levels of abstraction that are driven by status. E.g., the new data scientist looking to make a mark is desperately calling for "streamlined dataflows throughout the system" while an experienced builder is wondering wtf this means in terms of actual code written, and can't get the other person to spit out anything concrete -- because they have nothing concrete to spit out, but they de facto insist that what they're saying is sensical and valuable.