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Re:Facial recognition: It’s time for action by kromem on Friday December 07, 2018 @06:58PM (#18632794)
Except with a warrant, it's entirely legal (and has been for a long time) currently for a surveillance team to physically stalk you in areas with an expectation of privacy (TEMPEST, wiretaps, etc), and in public areas they don't even need a warrant (actually, in public areas, it's legal for anyone to stalk you - just ask celebrities about their paparazzi stalkers).

As best I can tell, from a surveillance standpoint what Microsoft is encouraging to become standardized is to apply the same level of legal rigor for wiretaps to facial recognition, which would be a significant step beyond matching legal standards for physical surveillance (which is as it should be, as there's a scaling potential with automated surveillance that needs to be kept in check beyond simply the legal limits of physical surveillance).

Microsoft's stance is a pretty good one "in a perfect world." The problem is that it isn't a perfect world, and we've already seen a good system of FISA courts established after the uncovered abuses from the 1975 Church committee turn into a revolving door for exponentially increased secret warrants for NSA surveillance, even to the point of that surveillance becoming available to local police forces.

What doesn't help is that Hollywood has already normalized a lot of surveillance tech so that most of the public assumes things are already legal/implemented in much broader ways than they are, so it's normalized the very idea of the surveillance state that we are growing into.

If anything, private corporate abuses of the technology is the only thing that will generate enough public outrage to lead to a generalized reform. Self-governance at a corporate level may seem good, but I suspect it will simply mitigate the necessary outrage.

The necessary conversation starter would be the ACLU running a personalized erectile dysfunction out-of-home display advertising campaign in Washington, DC. As long as that level of abuse is against the terms of use of the intermediate providers, it protects the less visible abuses of the technology.

Ironically, a "race to the bottom" is precisely what will result in the appropriate level of regulation - corporate self-governance will always be a half-measure that seems good on paper but leaves a lot of procedural loopholes for systemic abuses that go unnoticed for a very long time.

Re:Facial recognition: It’s time for action by visarga on Saturday December 08, 2018 @02:45AM (#18634333)
> it's legal for anyone to stalk you - just ask celebrities about their paparazzi stalkers

Yeah, you're talking about human stalkers, but OP's talking about capturing your image with many cameras, logging your presence into databases and sharing that information with other organisations.

Re:Facial recognition: It’s time for action by phkahler on Friday December 07, 2018 @09:03PM (#18633396)
>> Except with a warrant, it's entirely legal

I don't think Microsoft and their partners are interested in building a warrants-only surveillance system. Businesses already have camera systems and one could run face recognition on stored video after something has happened. Nobody is talking about that. This is all about real-time cloud connected face recognition.

Re:Facial recognition: It’s time for action by godelski on Friday December 07, 2018 @10:28PM (#18633722)
I think this needs to be changed. What is a public space has changed drastically. What you can do with technology has changed this drastically too. Like where do you draw the line of what someone can do without a warrant?

Follow you?

Video tape you?

Video tape an entire public area constantly?

Have Arial footage of an entire city?

All these things exist and are being done. There's good uses for all of them too. But where do we draw the line? Do the good uses outweigh the bad? Personally I'm not convinced. And that's before we include the internet as a public place, which I really don't think people internalize it like that.

Re:Facial recognition: It’s time for action by sgt101 on Saturday December 08, 2018 @11:57AM (#18636118)
What's critical is who & why. I might follow you to find out where you go for a drink after work so that I can set up a brilliant surprise party for you there, on the other hand someone might follow me so that they can determine where best to murder them. A city might be filmed to support traffic efficiency and pollution control, if the footage then gets used to suppress political protest then it's a whole different thing.