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Re:Tesla's giant battery saved $40M during its first year, r... by LeonM on Thursday December 06, 2018 @10:54AM (#18619050)
Actually, lithium is quite valuable and can be recycled into new batteries. I don't have the numbers, but AFIAK, disposal is cashflow positive.

Edit: see hwillis's comment down below, he/she is obviously more knowledgeable about the topic than I am. I was wrong.

Re:Tesla's giant battery saved $40M during its first year, r... by batmansmk on Thursday December 06, 2018 @11:29AM (#18619421)
I read on Wikipedia quite the opposite: we don't recycle Lithium it because it costs 5 times more than freshly extracted lithium. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battery_recycling#Lithium_ion_...

If my math is correct, the battery needs to last at least 10 years to break even if you factor in the cost of recycling the lithium.

Re:Tesla's giant battery saved $40M during its first year, r... by et2o on Thursday December 06, 2018 @12:21PM (#18620020)
Recycled lithium might cost 5x more. Not that the disposal cost of a battery is 5x the purchase price.

If the battery pays for its purchase price in 2 years and the disposal cost is 1/2 the price of a new battery (doubt it's anywhere near that), then the it would still pay for the total cost of ownership in 3 years.

Re:Tesla's giant battery saved $40M during its first year, r... by 64738 on Thursday December 06, 2018 @04:51PM (#18622647)
From what I understand, used-up lithium batteries are fairly non-toxic and can be safely dumped in a landfill. Still not zero-cost, but probably about as low as you can get. And they can probably recover some of that cost by recycling some of the other metals from them.
Re:Tesla's giant battery saved $40M during its first year, r... by Scoundreller on Thursday December 06, 2018 @11:18AM (#18619307)
I’ve heard quite the opposite: recycling lithium is difficult.

Maybe the other metals in the batteries make it worth recycling, but not for the lithium recovery (with today’s tech).

Re:Tesla's giant battery saved $40M during its first year, r... by danans on Thursday December 06, 2018 @12:47PM (#18620292)
EV batteries can be repurposed for small-scale grid storage applications, and therefore can have a second life for many years before they are finally broken down to raw ingredients for recycling:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-06-27/where-3-m...

Re:Tesla's giant battery saved $40M during its first year, r... by Scoundreller on Thursday December 06, 2018 @01:27PM (#18620664)
Do aged lithium batteries lose charge efficiency, discharge efficiency or capacity?

Each loss would encourage different kinds of secondary uses.

Re:Tesla's giant battery saved $40M during its first year, r... by geon on Friday December 07, 2018 @02:14AM (#18625715)
Yes. Eventually, Li-Ion batteries will "puff up" due to chemical degradation and may even spontaneously catch fire.

https://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/55q7py/why_do_l...

Re:Tesla's giant battery saved $40M during its first year, r... by Pete_D on Friday December 07, 2018 @02:14PM (#18630616)
This always makes me nervous. If I have some old laptops lying around, how worried should I be about them exploding? Does it only apply if they're in use?
Re:Tesla's giant battery saved $40M during its first year, r... by danans on Thursday December 06, 2018 @01:59PM (#18620955)
I believe they experience all of those. But yes, there are many secondary uses, especially in situations where high energy density isn't required.

After the last economically viable use for electricity storage, however, there has to be an economic incentive to actually recycle the raw materials. Presumably this is when value of the raw materials exceeds the cost of their reclamation.

Re:Tesla's giant battery saved $40M during its first year, r... by Sohcahtoa82 on Thursday December 06, 2018 @08:05PM (#18624212)
>> Do aged lithium batteries lose charge efficiency, discharge efficiency or capacity?

> I believe they experience all of those.

Hmm...would that explain the CPU performance loss of an aging cell phone battery? Lower discharge efficiency = less power available for the CPU = CPU throttles itself to lower power usage?

Re:Tesla's giant battery saved $40M during its first year, r... by geon on Friday December 07, 2018 @02:10AM (#18625705)
That is exactly what happened, yes. Without the throttling, the battery can't deliver peak power, and the device crashes.