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A comment on Israeli Software Helped Saudis Spy on Khashoggi, Lawsuit Says. Parent comment

Re:Israeli Software Helped Saudis Spy on Khashoggi, Lawsuit ... by flyinglizard on Monday December 03, 2018 @06:59PM (#18594468)
Moral culpability depends on perspective. It’s not absolute. In some societies it’s immoral to consume alcohol, in others it’s immoral to get a divorce or use electricity on Saturdays.

From the perspective of NSO developers, they are helping prevent the next attack against civilians somewhere. I can’t fault them for that.

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Re:Israeli Software Helped Saudis Spy on Khashoggi, Lawsuit ... by tareqak on Monday December 03, 2018 @08:23PM (#18594992)
Now, NSO developers can have a frank and honest dialog with their leadership about how they made it possible to carry out an attack against a civilian somewhere similar to the dialog between Google employees and their leadership concerning Operation Dragonfly.
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Re:Israeli Software Helped Saudis Spy on Khashoggi, Lawsuit ... by nbsd4life on Tuesday December 04, 2018 @05:51AM (#18598222)
Google has 100 times as many employs as NSO group. The equivalent for a group of 100 Google employees signing a petition is one person signing it. They can just be fired & replaced.
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Re:Israeli Software Helped Saudis Spy on Khashoggi, Lawsuit ... by eli_gottlieb on Monday December 03, 2018 @08:48PM (#18595159)
That's not a difference in what's right and what's wrong. It's a disagreement over what the developers are actually doing.
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Re:Israeli Software Helped Saudis Spy on Khashoggi, Lawsuit ... by oculusthrift on Tuesday December 04, 2018 @12:35AM (#18596619)
why are you discussing moral relativism so boldly as if it’s a fact. it’s that postmodernist philosophy that’s totally degraded society.

in some societies it’s “immoral” not to rape someone as punishment or to not kill a “unclean” ethnicity and your definition supports that

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Re:Israeli Software Helped Saudis Spy on Khashoggi, Lawsuit ... by flyinglizard on Tuesday December 04, 2018 @03:54AM (#18597625)
Only the recognition of relative morality is modern. Moral always differed between region and cultures, but our crusading ancestors said it’s only their moral that’s correct and tried to fix other societies to conform.
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Re:Israeli Software Helped Saudis Spy on Khashoggi, Lawsuit ... by 0db532a0 on Tuesday December 04, 2018 @04:35PM (#18603781)
Moral relativism deals with the idea that there is no fact in morality.
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Re:Israeli Software Helped Saudis Spy on Khashoggi, Lawsuit ... by objektif on Monday December 03, 2018 @07:43PM (#18594749)
Killing people is immoral in any society. If you have an average IQ you understand eventually what your product will be used for.
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Re:Israeli Software Helped Saudis Spy on Khashoggi, Lawsuit ... by int_19h on Monday December 03, 2018 @09:27PM (#18595488)
Murdering people is immoral in any society, but whether a given slaying constitutes murder or not varies widely. There's justifiable self-defense, capital punishment etc.
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Re:Israeli Software Helped Saudis Spy on Khashoggi, Lawsuit ... by javagram on Monday December 03, 2018 @07:56PM (#18594829)
> Killing people is immoral in any society

Most societies make an exception for killing enemies of the state. Soldiers are seen as heroes fighting for their country not as immoral killers.

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Re:Israeli Software Helped Saudis Spy on Khashoggi, Lawsuit ... by airstrike on Monday December 03, 2018 @08:22PM (#18594975)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_ad_bellum
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Re:Israeli Software Helped Saudis Spy on Khashoggi, Lawsuit ... by 14 on Monday December 03, 2018 @09:00PM (#18595271)
I wonder if the Sentinelese find it immoral?
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Re:Israeli Software Helped Saudis Spy on Khashoggi, Lawsuit ... by objektif on Monday December 03, 2018 @09:16PM (#18595415)
Looks like they find it less immoral than manipulating people into believing fake religious stuff.
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Re:Israeli Software Helped Saudis Spy on Khashoggi, Lawsuit ... by oh-kumudo on Monday December 03, 2018 @08:40PM (#18595111)
Guns, cars and knives can kill people too. Also drugs and alcohol, how about banning people working on those stuff?
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Re:Israeli Software Helped Saudis Spy on Khashoggi, Lawsuit ... by objektif on Monday December 03, 2018 @08:48PM (#18595157)
Went over your head didnt it? Nobody is talking about banning software. Here we are talking about developing software that is specifically designed for governments for hacking phones and spying on citizens.
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Re:Israeli Software Helped Saudis Spy on Khashoggi, Lawsuit ... by oh-kumudo on Monday December 03, 2018 @08:55PM (#18595222)
Who would know it is deployed on another countries' citizens? If anything it is the Saudi who chose to use it, why shift the blame to the original developer? Hope you understand the point now.
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Re:Israeli Software Helped Saudis Spy on Khashoggi, Lawsuit ... by abalone on Tuesday December 04, 2018 @01:38AM (#18596906)
> From the perspective of NSO developers, they are helping prevent the next attack against civilians somewhere. I can’t fault them for that.

They are selling spy software to regimes that are known to kill civilians. Ergo they are not preventing attacks against civilians; they are enabling attacks against civilians. No moral relativism necessary.

Even with respect to Israel’s “counter” terrorism efforts, if the NSO development team’s motivation is to prevent attacks on civilians, then enabling Israel to attack and kill civilians is something for which they are morally culpable.

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