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Re:Ask HN: Have you ever regretted working on a product? by EZ-E on Wednesday November 21, 2018 @01:34AM (#18500609)
I previously worked for a company in internet dating and I implemented a matching algorithm that actively segregated people according to their language, country, income, race and education. For example we would match people differently if they were assumed poor, rich, black, white, etc

I don't regret working there per see, I didn't make the rules, but it opened my eyes that the dream of everyone being treated equally on the internet is dying. Before, you could assume the internet wouldn't discriminate because it's digital and detached from your physical self, but more and more companies have profiles about you and your experience will vary depending on who you are.

Re:Ask HN: Have you ever regretted working on a product? by gronne on Wednesday November 21, 2018 @02:10AM (#18500735)
“everyone being treated equally on the internet” never heard of this phenomenon before. Stray thought: if you are not anonymous - you will be subject to discrimination. if you are anonymous and others not - you will be subject to discrimination. if everyone is anonymous you can’t discriminate - but its not very useful.
Re:Ask HN: Have you ever regretted working on a product? by EZ-E on Wednesday November 21, 2018 @02:19AM (#18500766)
I have a bit of an hard time articulating what I mean (ESL), but what I mean is that these days depending on what profile companies have on you (your assumed interests, income, education etc), your experience on the internet, apps will differ more and more. In order to improve retention and engagement, they will try to tailor the experience and give you what they think you want instead of letting you get it yourself, effectively creating a bubble around you.

In the context of my comment (internet dating company), it means even when you try to meet new people, we will make broad assumptions and present you people we think will match well with your assumed race, income, education. All for upping that retention a few .1%

In earlier internet, the experience on a single website, for example, was the same for everybody, no matter your demographic. I understand why it evolved, but I regret it a bit.

Re:Ask HN: Have you ever regretted working on a product? by gitgud on Wednesday November 21, 2018 @07:53AM (#18502280)
I find this so relatable, Instagram and YouTube especially, have refined intense recommendation algorithms that make me wonder.... Are they just showing me what I want to see?
Re:Ask HN: Have you ever regretted working on a product? by gronne on Wednesday November 21, 2018 @06:22AM (#18501828)
Thank you for the elaboration. Good point.
Re:Ask HN: Have you ever regretted working on a product? by hndamien on Wednesday November 21, 2018 @11:34PM (#18507873)
I wonder if Tinder does matching based on my device type as a proxy for income....
Re:Ask HN: Have you ever regretted working on a product? by gronne on Thursday November 22, 2018 @04:45PM (#18512774)
Who knows. I don’t think it would be the best proxy - these days everyone and their dog has an iphone.
Re:Ask HN: Have you ever regretted working on a product? by hndamien on Thursday November 22, 2018 @06:03PM (#18513131)
I'd say there is at least some correlation. Not a great indicator, but better than nothing and helpful since it is in the user agent. They aren't curing cancer, so accuracy is less important.
Re:Ask HN: Have you ever regretted working on a product? by unmole on Wednesday November 21, 2018 @03:23AM (#18501040)
On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog[1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Internet,_nobody_knows_...

Re:Ask HN: Have you ever regretted working on a product? by ThePadawan on Wednesday November 21, 2018 @03:06AM (#18500966)
The thought of "original internet equality" brought me back to the days where you would land on obscure forums via a search engine, and you would find posts by accounts like "str_master", "jsmith", "quizboy".

The most you could discriminate them by was their number of posts on that forum, moderator privileges etc.

Re:Ask HN: Have you ever regretted working on a product? by KineticLensman on Wednesday November 21, 2018 @03:20AM (#18501025)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Internet,_nobody_know...

Classic cartoon from 1993 celebrating the equality of the anonymous internet

Re:Ask HN: Have you ever regretted working on a product? by otakucode on Wednesday November 21, 2018 @02:39PM (#18505376)
Not useful? It was tremendously useful when I was a kid. I could participate in online discussions, make friends, learn things, and have all manner of fun without worrying about someone persecuting me over my age. No one ever felt any need to prod me about my gender, age, nationality, religious persuasion, or anything like that. Communities were organized around topics, and reputation was built from the ground up. It was quite useful, I assure you.
Re:Ask HN: Have you ever regretted working on a product? by sl1ck731 on Wednesday November 21, 2018 @01:36AM (#18500615)
I mean...is that bad? You're more likely to "connect" with someone who is closer in both location and culture.
Re:Ask HN: Have you ever regretted working on a product? by askmike on Wednesday November 21, 2018 @01:44AM (#18500651)
Statistically it might make sense to segregate and discriminate groups of people. But morally?

It's like how the public wouldn't really accept that if statistics show that all planes are blown up by people from country X, everyone from country X is thoroughly searched and no one else.

Also note that in case of the dating app, if you assume people like X want to date with people like Y and you don't allow them to match anyone else you, you can never validate/improve your assumptions.

Re:Ask HN: Have you ever regretted working on a product? by kbenson on Wednesday November 21, 2018 @01:47AM (#18500656)
Well, depending on how the service marketed itself, I don't think there's anything wrong with doing that. If people want to use an internet dating site to find someone they are happy with, and if they are more likely to be happy with someone similar to them, then you are providing what they asked for. If they find they aren't happy with similar people, I'm sure there are other dating services which deliver that specifically.

It's not our job and it's not right to force our values on others because we think it will make them better people when that's not what they asked for. That said, I think it would be different if a news organization was doing the equivalent, and serving items that confirmed prior ideas. the difference there is that in one case they are asking to be happy, and in the other they are asking to be informed. This does of course assume people actually want to be informed and news isn't just an entertainment medium for the customer as well now...

Re:Ask HN: Have you ever regretted working on a product? by sl1ck731 on Wednesday November 21, 2018 @02:01AM (#18500706)
This was my line of reasoning as well. You can't tailor an entire business around the 1% of cases where a sheep herder in Asia and a multimillionaire from Texas really hit it off.
Re:Ask HN: Have you ever regretted working on a product? by sbarre on Wednesday November 21, 2018 @12:14PM (#18504222)
In this example it sounds like the app was making assumptions and pre-segregating matches based on implied attributes rather than specified preferences.

So even though a user might only say "show me matches between 18-35 years old" the app would apply additional filtering based on the user's supplied attributes in an effort to improve "relevance".

I'm not saying you're wrong, or that this was wrong/right but I did want to clarify what the OP seemed to be saying.

Re:Ask HN: Have you ever regretted working on a product? by EZ-E on Wednesday November 21, 2018 @01:48AM (#18500661)
It makes business/economical sense, and some of the algorythm's rules were logical (ie : have people of same country/language meet), but I think the way we discriminated on assumed income and race to be a bit more questionable.

Another thing is that they used to bought ads targeting female users in developing countries to "feed them" to users of richer countries hoping to bait them to pay money (to send digital gifts for example).

Re:Ask HN: Have you ever regretted working on a product? by cyberferret on Wednesday November 21, 2018 @01:51AM (#18500665)
The connection criteria should go deeper than the list the OP mentioned. Real connections happen when your principles, beliefs, goals and dreams resonate with another. Your skin colour, location etc. can be completely irrelevant in that equation.

Were the OP working on an algorithm that would go 'next level' and extract those qualities from the base data given, then I am sure that would have been a far more rewarding endeavour than just matching skin colour or income level.

(Note: I am of sub-continental heritage and married to an Australian girl whom I met while going to ballroom dancing lessons).

Re:Ask HN: Have you ever regretted working on a product? by sl1ck731 on Wednesday November 21, 2018 @02:03AM (#18500711)
I'm not saying its not possible, but the list of aggravating factors and even the definition of romance or love would all fall into the equation and quickly turn the service worthless. If a significant user base can find what they need with the minimal and most topical filters it wouldn't make sense to dilute it any further.
Re:Ask HN: Have you ever regretted working on a product? by heedlessly3 on Wednesday November 21, 2018 @10:59AM (#18503584)
Let's say you're an Indian guy living in Midwest America.

The algorithm will put you in the bottom pile, because your race is different than the women in your local area

Re:Ask HN: Have you ever regretted working on a product? by 13of40 on Wednesday November 21, 2018 @03:17AM (#18501008)
Or get hounded by insider gold diggers if they find out you're wealthy.
Re:Ask HN: Have you ever regretted working on a product? by beefeater on Wednesday November 21, 2018 @12:06PM (#18504139)
What's wrong with that algorithm?

Black people are more likely to date black people, white people are more likely to date white people, and rich people are more likely to date rich people. By tailoring the matching algorithm to take this into account, you increase the chance your users will find a good match. This seems user friendly to me. Were you also offended that the algorithm matched people differently based on age?