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A comment on NYC subway and bus services have entered 'death spiral', experts say. Parent comment

Re:NYC subway and bus services have entered 'death spiral', ... by eric_h on Tuesday November 20, 2018 @05:33PM (#18498467)
> Hence why the NYC mayor is so intent on funding worthless streetcars and ferries

I'm assuming you're using the "worthless" adjective only for the streetcars - I use the NYC Ferry regularly (a stop opened near my apt last year) and it's way better than the subway. I have to walk a bit further on the other side, but it's still way more comfortable.

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Re:NYC subway and bus services have entered 'death spiral', ... by deminature on Tuesday November 20, 2018 @07:40PM (#18499230)
Streetcars aren't even necessarily worthless. They're called trams in Australia and Sydney has recently rolled out a network after seeing how heavily utilized they are in Melbourne, and how convenient they are for short-distance travel. Pretty much everyone who works in the city has a tram trip somewhere in their commute. Provided the tracks run past places people need to go, there's no reason they need to be worthless.
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Re:NYC subway and bus services have entered 'death spiral', ... by icebraining on Wednesday November 21, 2018 @03:33PM (#18505825)
Same in Brussels. And in Lisbon they're also touristic attractions: http://www.lisbonstopover.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/lx-...
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Re:NYC subway and bus services have entered 'death spiral', ... by umichguy on Wednesday November 21, 2018 @02:55AM (#18500914)
Melbourne trams are awesome! Sure, they're not everywhere or go everywhere but for near the city center and some main routes they make so much sense.
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Re:NYC subway and bus services have entered 'death spiral', ... by eugmill on Tuesday November 20, 2018 @05:42PM (#18498534)
I use it as well but it moves far fewer people at a much higher running cost. I love the ferry but it's not a viable replacement.
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Re:NYC subway and bus services have entered 'death spiral', ... by ricardoreis on Tuesday November 20, 2018 @07:01PM (#18499035)
No one would consider suggesting it as a "replacement" for surface transport.

However, it is a valuable augment to the surface system. The point is that it helps "connect the dots" (providing more options for people to get from A to B) - hence making the system more effective as a whole.

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Re:NYC subway and bus services have entered 'death spiral', ... by bradleyjg on Tuesday November 20, 2018 @05:38PM (#18498505)
It may be useful for you but in the grand scheme all the new ferries cover only a trivial percentage of the total number of daily trips.
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Re:NYC subway and bus services have entered 'death spiral', ... by CydeWeys on Tuesday November 20, 2018 @06:12PM (#18498738)
And the ferries are heavily subsidized and very expensive to operate, and they pollute quite heavily.

They don't compare remotely favorably to the subway along any axis except start-up cost (it's cheaper to buy a boat and build some piers than to build a subway tunnel).

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Re:NYC subway and bus services have entered 'death spiral', ... by ricardoreis on Tuesday November 20, 2018 @07:02PM (#18499045)
except start-up cost

Which is, well, hugely significant when you think about it.

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Re:NYC subway and bus services have entered 'death spiral', ... by bradleyjg on Tuesday November 20, 2018 @09:38PM (#18499791)
Even if you could afford to run enough ferries to make a dent, which you can’t, they simply don’t have the bandwidth.

Some people tried to make the math work for the L shutdown and even if you had a line of ferries just following each other as close as safely possible it wouldn’t be nearly enough. Subways are incredibly efficient at moving large numbers of people.

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Re:NYC subway and bus services have entered 'death spiral', ... by CydeWeys on Tuesday November 20, 2018 @08:11PM (#18499407)
Cities should have a planning timeframe for infrastructure improvements with a horizon longer than a couple years.
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Re:NYC subway and bus services have entered 'death spiral', ... by ricardoreis on Wednesday November 21, 2018 @05:02AM (#18501435)
Well, yeah. And they should probably be having discussions based on something beside snarky retorts and popcorn-throwing too, I guess.

But I guess those discussions will need to happen elsewhere.

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