News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:UK austerity has inflicted 'great misery' on citizens, UN... by grey-area on Sunday November 18, 2018 @03:23AM (#18479370)
There are no easy solutions here, but it's simplistic and wrong (morally and objectively) to claim that the people of Greece deserve the destitution imposed by the EU. I say this as a supporter of the EU project who thinks this was a very dangerous and counterproductive move for the EU.

Did the cleaners at the finance ministry deserve to be fired because of arbitrary austerity? Does a grandmother in Athens who worked and paid into a pension all her life deserve a cut in her pension from €1300 to €600 a month? Does the widow of ansailor deserve cuts from €1900 to €650 a month because of a financial crisis far away?

These are real and serious questions.

The worst part of this policy of austerity is that the only thing it is useful for is imposing subjugation on the politicians of Greece, it makes Greece unable to pay for its obligations and unable to recover from them. I agree Greece needs reform, needs to collect more tax, needs more jobs and industry, but pro-cyclical austerity is not the answer for anyone including the debtors of Greece.

This shouldn't be about winners and losers, and fairy tales about evil Germany or corrupt, feckless Greece - it should be about getting Greece back on its feet so it can contribute. The same way the EU helped Spain after Franco or Ireland after the troubles.

Re:UK austerity has inflicted 'great misery' on citizens, UN... by raverbashing on Sunday November 18, 2018 @04:24AM (#18479523)
> to claim that the people of Greece deserve the destitution imposed by the EU

Destitution was not "imposed" to them. While I agree there are issues with the Euro zone/lack of a fiscal union, the end problem is lack of money going in. That shows up as austerity in this case BUT would have shown up as devaluations/debt/inflation in other cases. Coming from a 3rd world country I can say I have experience in this unfortunately (then the "evil guys" are the IMF, etc).

> Did the cleaners at the finance ministry deserve to be fired because of arbitrary austerity? Does a grandmother in Athens who worked and paid into a pension all her life deserve a cut in her pension from €1300 to €600 a month? Does the widow of ansailor deserve cuts from €1900 to €650 a month because of a financial crisis far away?

It's not "fair", and some of those issues are just a fundamental lack of jobs/work (same thing happens anywhere) but the issue is not with them. However it's easier to cut salaries/earnings of those people in your example while keeping the privileges of the higher levels. (See for example faculty/administration wage gap in American universities)

> it should be about getting Greece back on its feet so it can contribute. The same way the EU helped Spain after Franco or Ireland after the troubles.

Agreed, and austerity is not good in itself, it's more like making a fat person starve (which sucks and everybody hates) instead of making them eat better and exercise more (but if they don't do it themselves, then what).

Re:UK austerity has inflicted 'great misery' on citizens, UN... by grey-area on Sunday November 18, 2018 @02:11PM (#18481959)
Destitution was not "imposed" to them

I'd contend it absolutely was, this is why I gave examples of measures imposed by the troika like firing cleaners.

Austerity is the wrong solution at the wrong time and is especially galling given the central bank's largesse to other sectors/countries at the same time.

They should have imposed a large haircut on creditors and given long term loans to Greece, instead they imposed drastic budget cuts (aka destitution for the people of Greece) and sold it as justice. It was unfair, cruel, and fundamentally wrong.