News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Google and Facebook are monopolies. Does it matter? [audio] by SilasX on Thursday November 15, 2018 @06:09PM (#18464351)
But that's my point: it's the network effect (or related lock-in) that determines the monopoly, not the raw marketshare.

In fact, you can have "competition" while having all the substance of the monopoly. For example, if there are eight competitors with equal marketshare, but it's impossible for anyone new to enter the market, those eight can easily conspire to charge monopoly profits, despite each one's "small" market share.

Re:Google and Facebook are monopolies. Does it matter? [audio] by stcredzero on Thursday November 15, 2018 @06:13PM (#18464377)
If you have a situation where large swathes of the general public desperately want alternatives, but despair of ever seeing a viable one, then something there stinks like a monopoly.
Re:Google and Facebook are monopolies. Does it matter? [audio] by SilasX on Friday November 16, 2018 @10:27AM (#18469312)
People cant want a lot of things that aren't economically feasible.

Toy example: if everyone demands at least $30/pound for some risky kind of coal mining, because it's such a pain to do and they'd rather a) rest or b) do easier work at any lower price ... that doesn't mean coal miners are colluding or that coal mining is a monopoly.

In that case, if you want a $29/pound alternative, your desire is economically unrealistic.

If there's a single coal miner that does it for $29/pound -- and is thus the most efficient one -- that miner will dominate the (tiny, niche) market. But it would not rightly be called a "monopoly", but "a single provider who is legitimately better and would lose business if he started to falter".

Telling me that someone currently dominates a market does not prove monopoly power.

Re:Google and Facebook are monopolies. Does it matter? [audio] by stcredzero on Friday November 16, 2018 @12:18PM (#18470080)
The situation is far more like not being able to choose another broadband provider, with network effects taking the place of local cable regulations.

I can picture a scenario where some sites have an insurmountable advantage because of compromised network neutrality. I'm very sure that in that case, the winners would be crowing about how, "the market has spoken," when the reality is that the market is broken.

Re:Google and Facebook are monopolies. Does it matter? [audio] by SilasX on Friday November 16, 2018 @02:13PM (#18471164)
And yes, a broadband (often) would be an example of a monopoly provider. My point was that, "gosh, we want a better alternative" is not necessarily a reasonable desire or evidence of monopoly power.
Re:Google and Facebook are monopolies. Does it matter? [audio] by stcredzero on Friday November 16, 2018 @07:29PM (#18473079)
"Gosh, we want a better alternative, but alternatives keep on getting squashed," is a pretty strong indicator. Doesn't every monopoly claim that the situation is due to market forces and that they're not a monopoly?
Re:Google and Facebook are monopolies. Does it matter? [audio] by dllthomas on Friday November 16, 2018 @09:23AM (#18468889)
Likely, although "everyone is dissatisfied, but not enough to leave" can also be a result of compromise. If there's value to be had by everyone using the same thing, while everyone wants that one thing to be a little different than what others want, a lot of people will "want alternatives" that they can't really have regardless of how the provider behaves.
Re:Google and Facebook are monopolies. Does it matter? [audio] by stcredzero on Friday November 16, 2018 @12:20PM (#18470099)
Likely, although "everyone is dissatisfied, but not enough to leave" can also be a result of compromise.

That's a distortion. It's more like, lots of people are dissatisfied, but all of the alternatives are economic/network-effect suicide. It's more like people living and working in the crappy mining town, because the only alternatives are like living as a hobo in the woods.

Re:Google and Facebook are monopolies. Does it matter? [audio] by dllthomas on Sunday November 18, 2018 @09:28PM (#18483789)
I'm not sure if you're saying that what I'm saying is a distortion of the situation, or that the compromise represents monopolistic distortion of the market. I think the former? If so, that's a much stronger reading than I intended; I wasn't saying "this is what's happening" but rather "this is a thing that happens in general, it may be part of the explanation here, I don't know how to really pick it apart."